HIFU cure

yipper · New User Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 9

[quote="notme"]Yes, the doc is able to treat every little bit of cancer/tissue inside the gland, he can see what he is doing by watching the ultrasound screen. If all of the tissue is gone..... Very Happy

[/quote]

So HIU doctors can do even what the best surgeons in the world can't, and can do it without having the prostate in their hands. They can even see microscopic extensions with ultrasound. Nothing against HIFU but glad I had surgery.

notme · Guest

Just found a doctors blog and he writes:

"The (HIFU) radiation failure trial is expected to conclude in 1-2 years. Once HIFU is approved for that treatment, we'll be able to use it "off label" for primary disease. Then, the robot and radiation will find their true places in the Smithsonian...Say, "Hallelujah, brother!" .......

"The art of surgery is seeing and touching, whereas, in robotics there's only seeing. Now during HIFU, high resolution, realtime images are analyzing the very tissue you're determining whether or not to treat. You're looking at minute echo patterns that even the most talented surgical fingers couldn't make heads or tales of.

Would I choose HIFU if I were diagnosed with localize prostate cancer? Absolutely...and my patients feel the same way. "

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=52680019163#/wall.php?id=52680019163

Funny thing to me is that HIFU is used when radiation fails....so why not go HIFU to start???

and clinical trials show a 57% success rate using HIFU for advanced PCa, and that's those clinical trials....where only inexperienced doctors are allowed in......if experienced doctors were allowed in.....HIFU rules!

lihhnl · Regular Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 20

I will be doing Ablatherm and yes to the TURP. Also, will have supra pubic catheter. I will be using Dr. Chinn who will do the procedure in Germany. We are scheduled for October.

Hawk · Senior User Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 425

Notme said: "Funny thing to me is that HIFU is used when radiation fails....so why not go HIFU to start??? "

That is very strange reasoning to me. You use radiation when surgery fails so why not do radiation to start with ??? You do ADT when radiation fails why not start with ADT??? Sometimes you can have surgery by skilled surgeons if radiation fails why not start with those surgeons and have surgery first???

This is the type comment that just make some of us shake our head. The answer in each of these cases should be obvious. Because often research indicates it might not be the best first option!
_________________
History: PSA's 6.7 neg. biopsy - PSA 16.6 neg. biopsy - PSA's 8.2, 8.1, 8.7 - Biopsy. 4+4 Gleason 8. Lap RP Apr 2004, age 52 All neg margins, nodes, and structures. (T2a). Post RP PSA: every 6 mo. <.1 until Feb, 08 (46 mos) PSA .1 - I then got sensitive tests (all in 2008) showing:
Feb .06, May .09, Jun .10, Aug .10, Nov .15 -SRT

notme · Guest

In answer to Hawk's questions....
"You use radiation when surgery fails so why not do radiation to start with ???Because radiation is not recommended unless you are old, so when surgery fails they do radiation as a last ditch attempt.

You do ADT when radiation fails why not start with ADT??? Because ADT is not considered curative, so it is used most often along with radiation or surgery, it only slows the cancers progression.

Sometimes you can have surgery by skilled surgeons if radiation fails why not start with those surgeons and have surgery first??? I assume it was the patient's choice to go radiation, and then it failed. This approach has a much higher rate of complications.

And Hawk said: "Because often research indicates it might not be the best optiion".....or because HIFU isn't approved ... yet.

notme · Guest

lihhnl ~

Is that Douglas O. Chinn, MD?

Well heck! You're in great hands!
Ae you getting the TURP now or later? What size is your gland?

I wonder how much this costs??? From California to Germany...long ways! I sure wonder why he hasn't set up a place in Cabo.

Please keep in touch and let us know how it goes. I figure the more of us who vote with our feet ~ the quicker HIFU will be approved. That's the goal, to help the next guy.

Bon voyage!

lihhnl · Regular Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 20

Yes, he likes to be called Dr. Doug. It is even longer than California; I am in Hawaii. He has also been authorized to conduct FDA Approved trial clinical testing using the Ablatherm but he does not recommend the trial for me because the FDA requires it as a "total gland ablation, and impotence should occur." Crying or Very sad

He mentioned the TURP as being necessary, however, he said, "We stay away from the sphincter as this turp is tailored just for HIFU."

I met Dr. Doug by accident through Botsworth Laboratories when I was seeking a Urologist who would give me a PCA3 test. Nobody in Hawaii was willing. Dr. Doug contacted me after I contacted Botsworth.

Dr. Doug gave me the choice of surgery, radiation or HIFU. I had also been researching multitudes of procedures and made my decision based upon the existing data and the years it has been done throughout the world.

Dr. Doug used to do his procedure in Mexico and switched to Germany.
_________________
PSA 6.9 Age 65
4 positive cores of 18
Gleason 3+4=7
Stage between T2a & T2b
Ablatherm HIFU Germany
3 month PSA 0.08

notme · Guest

oh my gosh ~~ "total gland ablation and impotence should occur".... this is not necessary.....they are trying to kill HIFU....the Ablatherm anyway.

So, you don't know your gland size?? Sounds like you will be using the Ablatherm, and it always gets a TURP in Europe and rarely doesn't need one here (gland must be very small--25cc). I just wouldn't risk the TURP, even though he is staying away from the spincter, as scarring can occur, and I've read someone's account of it, and he said it was like a rooto router, painful. Incontinence can occur if scarring happens.

You are so close to Japan, I would have gone there, the Japanese are so into detail and they have a great record with HIFU. $15,000 Dr. T Uchida has recently presented and published data re HIFU that showed: Biochemical Disease Free Rate After 5 Years: Low Risk 97%, Intermediate Risk 71%, High Risk 64%

I've never heard of a PC3 test.

Dr. Doug has wrote up that great article on HIFU, he is a cryosurgeon, most HIFU docs are, as it's the same procedure........ Smile

welcome to the HIFU club.

lihhnl · Regular Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 20

PCA3 is not FDA approved but Dr. Chinn is authorized for clinical testing. It is an additional testing tool that will analyze prostrate cells through a DRE and urine sample. It may or may not detect cancer cells if, in some cases, a biopsy does not. I say may or may not because it appears to be accurate about 35% of the time according to Dr. Chinn; in my case, it did not. Of course there is no pain or pricking of the prostrate.

However, Dr. Chinn used a doppler ultrasound to find areas of "suspicion" and pinpointed the biopsy towards these areas which were collaborated on the biopsy analysis (the 2 positive cores).
_________________
PSA 6.9 Age 65
4 positive cores of 18
Gleason 3+4=7
Stage between T2a & T2b
Ablatherm HIFU Germany
3 month PSA 0.08

johnT · Senior User Joined: 27 Apr 2009 Posts: 235

Notme.
I don't know where you get some of your information.
Radiation is commonly used by younger patients, brachytherapy, IMRT and Proton. Older patients that can't undergo surgery because of healthe reasons are commonly reffered to radiation, but younger patients choose it all the time.
HT is curative for localized PC. Dr Liebowitsz's data shows his 13 month protocol to be more effective than all other treatments. HT is commonly given to advance PC patients in which no treatment is curative, but this doesn't mean that it won't cure localized PC.
Lastly you continue to hype HUIF and downgrade all other treatments:
Let's compare Brachytherapy to HUIF:
No catheter vs 2 week on a catheter.
No side affects, except urinary frequency and urgency for 4-6 weeks, easily controlled by flow max. Urinary constriction rare.
Don;t have to go to a foreign country. Many skilled doctors available locally.
a 45 min procedure, no pain, back home in a hour without a hospital stay.
No restrictions on food and you don't have to drink a gallon of water a day to remove burnt tissue.
costs a lot less than $25,000; it is the most cost effective treatment for PC.
All insurnaces cover it
Many long term studies as to cure rate and side affects across MANY institutions.
Not one incidence of complication reguarding hospitalization ever recorded.
It's OK to hype HUIF, but it's not OK to put down other treatments by disseminating false information.
JohnT
_________________
psa at diagnosis 40 in nov-08
gleason 6 and 7
Treatment choice seeds and IMRT

notme · Guest

Sorry, personally I really don't know much about radiation treatments, becuz my doc told me I was too young, as they cause cancer later. But, I was quoting AARP magazine, when I said that "hormone therapy is not considered curative, so it is used most often along with radiation or surgery, it only slows the cancers progression."

And, I'm going to copy what AARP says about Brachytherapy:

"with brachytherapy or seed therapy, doctors inject radioactive pellets each about the size of a grain of rice, via a thin needle throughout the prostate. The seeds give off radiation for several weeks and remain in place after the raidoactive material has been released.

An alternative to permanent seed implants is high dose brachythrapy: doctors use needles to place small catheters into the prostate. The catheters are then filled with radiation--at higher levels than you'd get with tyical seed therapy--and left in the prostate for 5 to 15 minutes before being removed. The patients usually gets three treatments over a couple of days. High dose brachytherapy is typically combined with low-dose external beam radiation.

The risks of brachytherapy are similar to those for external beam radiation. About 5 % develop significant and persistant rectal problems, and about 30% of men experience urinary frequency. The risk of impotence is slightly lower than with external beam radiation."

and they also said about external beam radiation:
" Erectile problems rarely occur right after radiation, but eventually 30 to 60% of men who receive external beam radiation become permanently impotent due to radiation induced damage to nerves and blood vessels."

AARP Sept. October 2009

I wish my doctor had been honest about the side effects, he spent an hour selling me on surgery, but he really didn't inform me of all of the possible side effects, I think all men wish there was a more open honest place to get info ~ that's why we come here. AARP was really honest.

BTW, my urologist told me that incontinence is published at 30%, but his findings say it's more like at least 50%. And, he said men won't talk about ED

channelsurferdude · Regular Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 12

Don't confuse photons with protons...AARP may have been talking about radiation treatments that use photons and not protons. Very different modalities here...

I asked Bob Marckini about this and he responded..

"This statistic is probably correct, but not for proton therapy, or for the combination proton and photon.

I recently conducted an in-depth survey of our 4,000 members, (Brotherhood of the Baloon) and the overwhelming majority of them reported no problems with sexual function."

notme · Guest

Erectile problems rarely occur right after radiation, but eventually 30 to 60% of men who receive external beam radiation become permanently impotent due to radiation induced damage to nerves and blood vessels."

Side effects can take up to three years to show up.

AARP used the words "protons", "intensity-modulated doses of radiation", "3 dimensional conformal radiation", "3- D-CRT "

Putt · Regular Joined: 04 Aug 2009 Posts: 36 Location: Kansas

I must have been sleeping when it was announced that AARP was the new official journal of medicine. How silly of me to think otherwise. I thought they just sold car insurance.......
_________________
PSA at Dx 105 at age 68, 4/04. ADT, RRP, 5/04. Gleason 4+5=9, Staged pT3c N0 MX, 3D rad, 40 treatments, 8/04. PSA 1/05 <0.01. ADT till 7/07. PSA 0.03 12/08, 0.07 4/09, 0.13 8/09, 0.19 12/09. Will start ADT3 after PSA reaches 1.2.

Replicant · Moderator Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 860

The topic of this thread was HIFU, but it has now become radiation and AARP.
_________________
Replicant

Dx Feb 2006, PSA 9 @age 43
RRP Apr 2006 - Gleason 3+4, T2c, NXMX, pos margins
PSA 5/06 <0.1, 8/06 0.2, 12/06 0.6, 1/07 0.7.
Salvage radiation (IMRT) total dose 70.2 Gy, Jan-Mar 2007@ age 44
PSA 6/07 0.1, 9/07 (and thereafter) <0.1
http://pcabefore50.blogspot.com

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