diet as prevention

ChemoMan · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: diet as prevention

Hi

Blanket statements like Sugar and Red meat causes cancer are by their nature just wrong. Red meat does not cause cancer. The problems lies in cooking it and charring it during cooking, but by simply marinating the meat before cooking you negate the carcinogenic effect of charring it.
http://www.medfinds.com/healthnotes.php?org=medigrative%2Cmedigrative&page=newswire/newswire_2008_10_23_1.cfm
Sugar is a natural food and a very simple one and the amount of bad press it receives borders on the hysterical. I don't know why people always come out and badmouth these foods, maybe they are just easy targets.
Another one is deep fried foods cause cancer......Rubbish as well. The problem is old oil in which food has been fried before. Simply by throwing the oil out after use you can make your deep fried foods safer to eat. Its the high temps that burn the leftover particles of food in the fat, changing them to carcinogenic compounds, that cause all the problems.
Its a tough life on this brutal little planet. Stop trying to ruin the little pleasures in life that make it all worth while. This hysteria about red meat and sugar is just that , Hysteria.
Did you all know that the rates of cancer generally are falling!
http://www.google.com.au/search?sa=N&tab=nw&q=cancer%20rates%20falling
that is the rate per 100,000 of the population and it has been falling for some time now. True certain cancers are on the rise like Lung cancer in females and NHL and brain tumours but these are made up by the falls in rates of all other cancers. True the numbers of people getting cancer is on the rise but that is because the population is increasing, so that is only natural. Not only are the rates of cancer coming down but we are getting better at treating it as well. Some cancers, NHL for example, used to be a death sentence but now it is the first cancer that is curable, well almost, we still need some long term results which will start coming in at around 2010 to prove that.
So if you want to munch on raw mung beans and tofu burgers by all means go ahead, but stop pushing your philosophy on the rest of us please.
_________________
Age 52
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission confirmed 1st October 2008
Remission confirmed 17 June 2009
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... Don't forget Rule number 1

fb0252 · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: diet as prevention

this is probably on the wrong thread. maybe otherwise though.

seems logical that food substances that slow down cancer growth might also play a role in prevention. two recent articles that were of interest to me were studies showing (to my best memory) about a 40% slowdown in tumor growth caused by substances in dark chocolate.

Just read another recently noting the effect of vitamin D on growth of breast cancer cells, slowing them down (in the study, purportedly) by 50%. parroting what I recall: breast cancer cells have numerous vitamin D receptors, and when the vitamin attaches it stops the cell dividing.

These i read very recently. Wonder if anyone knows of other studies of substances definitely slowing down tumor growth, and reaction to the above?

redreflect · New User Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 2 Location: England

Hi

In response to the previous conversation about curing cancer with a vegan diet

To clarify this

There are many cases of advanced cancer being cured by choosing a very healthy diet, the basics of which are

* nothing from animal source (no meat, fish, chicken or dairy - or any of these hidden in other products)
* no refined foods (so no white flour, white rice etc)
* no added or hidden oils
* Less than 20% of calories from fat and preferably less than 10% (at 20% this is a diet which inhibits cancer from forming, at less than 10% this is a diet which is considered the best for treating cancer already present). Be aware that food packaging can be misleading. To find out the percentage of calories from fat:
Each gram of fat has 9 calories, so the formula is.
Per 100g of product ::: [quote]NumberOfGramsOfFat multiplied by 9, divided by total number of calories, multiplied by 100, equals PercentageOfCaloriesFromFat in the product[/quote]
* Exercise

A healthy cancer preventative/reversal diet will be based around

* Mostly : Lots of organic vegetables - especially green leaves and sprouts, low fat fruits and salads, preferably raw but can be cooked
* Then: Low fat whole foods to fill up on, brown rice, whole grains, oats, potatoes
* Then: Beans, peas and other pulses - can be raw/sprouted (although some like Kidney beans must be cooked)
* Then: [b]Occasional[/b] nuts and high fat fruits & vegetables (avocado, coconut)

Natural herbs and spices can be used and [u][b]once you become used to this way of cooking/eating food can be made to taste really delicious with a little practice[/b][/u]. Food will also taste fresher and have bags of flavour and you would find the food consumed previously to be bland and greasy. Given the health benefits you will never want to turn back

I agree with the previous poster that a B12 suppliment is essential, and possibly D3, Vitamin C (although this is better from a natural source)

In order for this approach to work it is necessary to adopt not a diet, but a lifestyle change and it works best for those who totally embrace the concept that personal choices affect health and who are prepared to deal with Social and Peer pressure. Evidence has shown that people who choose this lifestyle stand a very good chance of being cured, but if they return to the Standard American Diet at a later date the disease returns. The lifestyle choice involves addressing

* psychological and spiritual health
* food choices
* exercise
* stress
* sleep
* stimulation (hobbies and interests)

Also, as previously said, this is an area both outside of popular mindset and the mass culture procured consumer society, and outside of consumerism - ie: there is very little money to be made for business as we are talking basic commodities and common sense here

Doesn't it make sense to you that we are in possession of one of the most sophisticated machines ever made, our bodies. And the only thing they can be made of, ultimately, is what we put in them, our food. If we feed our lovely machine "crap" food (fuel) we will have substandard performance? If we feed our machine top notch fuel we will perform the best for the longest. Our bodies cannot be made of anything else!

It has been scientifically proved the body renews itself every 7 years with lots of parts renewed every 8 months. And just think about what happens if you put diesel in a petrol car .... think about it! The body regenerates in 8 months - 7 years. Those following the diet described above see almost immediate results, what do you have to loose by giving it a try? Do nothing and your current prognosis will stand. Try this approach and using the example of millions of people who simply do not develop cancer or who have cured it - you have an alternative or additional choice?

The difficult bit is getting good advice, being informed, and making the personal choice to change. The media will have severely skewed belief about what is a "healthy diet" what is good for you and what isn't. This is good marketing to sell products, and is not necessarily in the interest of humans. You will have your own beliefs and habits which you would need to change and this will need commitment

In the future I believe that lifestyle will be considered one of the most influential carcinogenic factors, and that treatments will incorporate the diet/lifestyle choices described above as well as surgery and/or drugs depending on what is the best approach for each individual case. What is wrong at the moment is that patients are not told about all options - only the options on offer at the hospital/surgery/discipline they are at, and most doctors are not trained in the diet/lifestyle area as money has simply not been put in to fund research

Please do not hesitate to ask me any further questions, or if you would like evidence or further reading

Kind regards
Tracy
[/u]

Vee Smith · Moderator Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 1003 Location: UK

There is still no truly proven evidence one way or the other. Cancer comes whatever you eat and however you live. At the end of the day it always comes back to moderation and self-control.

Vegans get cancer just as much as non-vegans; people who live around the Mediterranean get cancer; the Japanese get cancer, the ancient Egyptians had cancer; the ancient Greeks had cancer.

Cancer is not a SINGLE disease but a term for a number of conditions which are characterised by cell proliferation, some curable, others not.

redreflect · New User Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 2 Location: England

"There are three kinds of lies in the world: lies, damn lies and statistics" Benjamin Disraeli. Don't let yourself become a statistic, consider the diet approach

In reply to the previous post:

"There is still no truly proven evidence one way or the other."

True there is not scientific evidence per say at the moment, however, there is the evidence of case after case after case of cancer sufferers - and many of them diagnosed as clinically terminal - adopting a low fat, unrefined, vegan diet and exercise achieving a complete recovery. This is certainly worth investigating

Consider the following

1) Your immune system is the only cure for cancer
2) A weakened immune system is the biggest cause of cancer
3) The higher the dietary fat, the more the immune system is weakened
4) The only foods that contain immune-strengthening and cancer-fighting nutrients are plant foods

"Vegans get cancer just as much as non-vegans;"

Not all vegans eat a low fat diet - it is perfectly possible to eat a nutritionally deficient limited junk food diet and be vegan. To get a clearer view you would need to look at vegans who follow a nutritionally complete, low fat diet - no study has been carried out yet to decide whether this group do typically have similar incidences of cancer or whether the incidence is very low

"People who live around the Mediterranean get cancer;"

100 years ago the typical mediterranean diet was based on whole foods, and lots of fruits and vegetables. Typically as in other western countries, as affluence has increase so has the consumption of refined foods and fat added to the diet and in turn the incidence of cancer. This suggests a direct correlation to the amount of dietary, the use of refined products eaten and the increased incidence of cancer

"The Japanese get cancer"

Typically the Japanese levels of cancer were very low and it can be shown that Japanese migrating to the west suffer the same rates of cancer as Americans when they adopt the typical American Diet. For years Japan had the highest per capita consumption of cigarettes, yet the lowest rates of lung cancer in the world, because Japanese smokers had strong immune systems sue to their low-fat, plant based diet

"The ancient Egyptians had cancer; the ancient Greeks had cancer."

I don't doubt they did - however, what is important is to understand the context of the numbers in which they had cancer

If cancer can be cured by our immune system, and is a result of a faulty immune system then we must accept that there will be some people who inevitably will succumb to the disease for whatever reason. It is unlikely cancer will ever be totally eradicated. However, with the use of careful diet it is also possible that cancer could become a rare disease rather than the pandemic it currently is

"Cancer is not a SINGLE disease but a term for a number of conditions which are characterised by cell proliferation, some curable, others not."

I would offer a similar answer to this point - Your immune system is the only cure for cancer, a healthy immune system would deal with cell proliferation before it became cancerous and therefore deal with the cause. Other treatments do not deal with the cause but the symptoms so this merely a different approach

Unfortunately there is no magic answer and like surgery, chemotherapy and radiation - a diet and lifestyle change will not work for everyone, but if it works for you that would be good. What is not good is the lack of knowledge about how to do it!

Smile

ChemoMan · Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: Re: diet as prevention

Hi redreflect

First off what personal experiences do you have with Cancer?. Are you a cancer survivor? I am and I take a dim view of pompus blowhards who preach to us. You need to establish some credentials before you can do that.

Your point about a healthy diet is a given and you will get no arguement from me there. If however you are advocating a vegan diet then you are pushing a personal viewpoint and you will get an arguement from me. The fallacious point you made about ancient egyptians perhaps shows the depth of your personal bias or am I wrong here?. Cancer is a genetic disorder caused by either genes inherited or genetic transformations acquired during life so the older you are the more likely these transformations occur, and ancient egyptians rarely lived beyond 50. In my country Men live to 78 and Women over 80 something that the ancients could never ever imagine. This would account for any differance in rates of cancer, something that could never be established anyway.

Another point about Japanese diets you failed to mention was that the intake of seafood by the Japanese is far greater than that of occidentals and it is this prodigious intake of seafood that probably accounts for their low rate of some cancers. I say some cancers because Japan has traditionally had high rates of certain cancers notably stomach cancers. The fact is that humans are prone to cancers because of our genes and no diet will ever reduce our chances of contracting cancer to zero.

A good diet is a balanced diet. This includes a certain intake of animal protein either fish or animal. There is evidence that the start of the intake of protein in our ancestors diet lead to the explosion in the size of our brains, which is what makes us human. Your arguement about the excessive intake of saturated fats rings true to me but the pontification about vegan diets sound like a bunch of woo and frankly you can take it and shove it!

The ball is in your court
Wink

_________________
Age 52
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission confirmed 1st October 2008
Remission confirmed 17 June 2009
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... Don't forget Rule number 1

miker21 · New User Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 3

[quote="Vee Smith"]
Vegans get cancer just as much as non-vegans;
[/quote]

There's a wide variety of vegans. There are vegans for example who consume excessively large amounts of sugar. Many others do not exercise at all. Others smoke excessively. "Veganism" per se is not a panacea for prevention of cancer. But a balanced plant-based diet is proven to contribute to a significant extent to prevention.
_________________
Mike
Healthy man interested in Prevention of chronic diseases through Diet and Lifestyle.

ChemoMan · Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: diet as prevention

Hi
Not content to push your woo theology down our throats, you now blame all vegans who get cancer for having bad habits. Quite frankly blaming the victim is a disgusting thing to do. Accept the facts that people no matter what they do or eat or think can get cancer.
_________________
Age 52
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission confirmed 1st October 2008
Remission confirmed 17 June 2009
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... Don't forget Rule number 1

miker21 · New User Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 3

[quote]
Accept the facts that people no matter what they do or eat or think can get cancer.[/quote]

Yes they can. But one can still do many things to significantly lower one's risk.
_________________
Mike
Healthy man interested in Prevention of chronic diseases through Diet and Lifestyle.

ChemoMan · Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: Re: diet as prevention

Hi

A vegan diet wont help if you already have cancer and is highly debatable in preventing it... a good balanced diet is probably the way to go for a healthy long life lived to your full potential.

What are your credentials for posting here.......you certainly are not giving a lot of support to us
_________________
Age 52
Diffuse Large B cell Lymphoma
Stage 2a
Finished six cycles of R chop 21 26th May 2008
Officially in remission 9th July 2008
Remission confirmed 1st October 2008
Remission confirmed 17 June 2009
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9620
RULE NUMBER 1.....Don't Panic
RULE NUMBER 2..... Don't forget Rule number 1

Dorothy06 · New User Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 1

[quote="ElaineC"]I wouldn't hold out too much hope on diet and exercise if I were you. I've been a vegetarian for 30 years, eating a wholefood, high fibre diet and yet two years ago I was diagnosed with bowel cancer. There's a lot of bowel cancer in my family and it seems the genes were stronger than my diet. In the ultimate irony in spite of living a much healthier life than my relatives who died from this disease I developed it around 10 years earlier than any of them did.

I also am a regular swimmer who was doing 1000 metres a day of the pool when I was diagnosed.

It makes me think that there are other more important factors at work here. Don't let this discourage anyone from taking up a more healthy diet but don't believe it will necessarily prevent cancer as I did. Sad

[/quote]
I agree with you! Dieting too much will make you feel weak when you didn't do the right procedure of doing it.

gazzza · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: Cancer Prevention

There IS a Chemical in Plants that can not only Prevent all Cancers,it can Kill Cancers as well!-it's found in Broccoli Sprouts!(not the broccoli head itself)The Chemical is Produced as Seedling Sprouts appear.The Chemical is to stop insects/other from eating the new plant.(It is only present in the seedling for the first 10-12 Days of its life),So i suggest Replacing Bean Sprouts,with BROCCOLI Sprouts,in your Diet!-also,KIWIFRUIT-it SHRANK my Sister's Brain Tumor!-eat AT LEAST 3 of them Per Day.........regards,Gazzza.

Vee Smith · Moderator Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 1003 Location: UK

It is available freely as a supplement, and is a chemical also found in red wine. The name of the supplement is Resvetarol.

For those that cannot digest or tolerate the brassica family or wine, it is well worth the effort to add into your supplement intake.

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