Saturation Biopsy done

chrisz · Regular Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 37

I just had a (what my doctor calls) a saturation biopsy done yesterday.

This involved going to the hospital and under general anesthesia, a
30+ core biopsy done. This type of biopsy is more likely to pick
up the cancer, if I have it, on the first go round.

I did have a 12 core biopsy done in 2004 with a neg. for cancer.
But my PSA continued to rise and was about 6 when my new
Udoc (yes, always get a second opinion or doctor) said he wanted
to do it this way.

I will let you know how it comes out in about a week.

You may want to ask your doctor about it if you have to have
another biopsy.

Chrisz

brainman · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

Yes, Chrisz, keep us informed about your biopsy results. Nine is an unusually high PSA but not the highest I have seen... especially with people who have advanced Prostate Cancer. So maybe you caught it early? Does anyone know if the PSA can go up and the individual still be negative for cancer? Just curious. Good luck, Chrisz.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

brainman · Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

Oh Echo, I can't recall the highest PSA results I have heard about Very Happy

... certainly about 21!

I did a little research on my own question about other causes for a high PSA result and I did find several.
1. Ejaculation within 48 hours of the test
2. Inflamation of the Prostate
3. Non-cancerous thikening of the Prostate
4. Simply getting older can cause a PSA rize.

PSA is still a very useful tool in detecting Prostate Cancer. Authors disagree on what the highest level should be before Cancer is suspected. It seems like 4 is the majic number for most of them.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

johnw100 · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

There is no such thing as a "normal" PSA.
Several things, including infection/inflamation as mentioned can cause elevated PSA.

Simply getting older will not, in itself, cause it: an enlarged prostate could well do.
The prostate naturally produces PSA, and the larger the prostate is, the more PSA is produced, so prostate size has to be factored in. A PSA of 6 is not necessarily unusually high for someone with an enlarged gland.

One of Dr Myers case studies has details of a patient with a PSA of 3656.

John

brainman · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

johnw, did the individual studied by Dr Myers with PSA of 3656 have Prostate Cancer or was he cancer free?
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

johnw100 · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

Dr Myers example was one of several advanced cases with extremely high PSA which subsequently reduced to very low figures.

It is not in the context of someone who has a PSA in a gray area of 4 to 10 where BPH could be cause of the elevation, and generally most biopsies do not find cancer.

"PSA density" (ratio of PSA to prostate size) or "free PSA" test would indicate % of PSA from BPH.

John

brainman · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

John, thank you for that clarification. We are all still learning Very Happy

. I thought I had seen PSA in the thousands range but was not sure I could quote a source and did not want to give out faulty information... especially with my memory as bad as it is.

Chris, the one thing I do know about PSA is not to worry about one test result... it is the overall trend that is important to follow. Regardless of what the first test shows, if it is going up that is bad, if it is going down that is good. Let us know how you are doing.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

chrisz · Regular Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 37

Thanks Jim and John for your inputs.

The first 12 core biopsy that I had in 2004 showed BPH but no cancer.
PSA at that time was 4.2 However, the size of my prostate is not
very large, my Free PSA ratio was low (not good). My PSA has been
as high as 7.6 but dropped to 5.2 after treatment for a verified prostate
infection.

Actually, I worry more about the biopsy I had last Wed being negative
BUT----- I do have cancer. I have read on this forum where people
have had multiple biopsy's, all negative, then after a TURP find that
they DID have cancer all the time. Seems I read about one poor soul
had it spread after many biopsy's showed no trace of cancer.

Some people have cancer with a very small prostate and a Psa of 2.
Some people have NO cancer with a PSA of 22.
No one seems to know why. My Udoc says he has patients with PSA's
in the double digits, but no cancer can be detected by ANY method.

So, while this PSA test HAS helped detect early PC, many times it
causes undo anxiety. So it's good and bad. But I would like to know
what is causing high PSA's with no PC present.

I'm excited about all the new protein-marker test that show promising
solutions to this PSA dilemma.

Jim, I have read your story and hope the best for you.
As I do for many poor souls on this forum and their families.

My sister is in hospice right now for lung cancer at age 49.
I have lost my mother, an uncle, an a aunt all with in the last 3
years from lung cancer. Now my poor sister. It was those cigs.
that did it.

There has not been any Prostate cancer in my family, so I guess I'll
be the one to get that rolling. Funny thing is, I can't think of one single
person in my large family that DOES NOT have high blood pressure
except ==== ME ! And I have Panic and Anxiety disorder that has
made like miserable for 30 years now. Now this PC crap doesn't help
with that at all.

Sorry for the long post, just venting.

Praying for you all,

Chrisz

chrisz · Regular Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 37

Well, I went to the Udoc tuesday, and my "saturation" biopsy did not
show any cancer. I should be happy. But I wonder why my PSA still
continues to rise.

The Udoc says he (and his colleges) have patients with a double digit
PSA but no cancer. Why ? I asked. He said he just doesn't know.

I go back in 6 months to have another PSA test done and then go
from there.

He says he does not like to give multiple biospy's and they have other
screening methods, but he would not go into detail.

Oh well, I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks so much for the replies, it helps alot.

Chrisz

brainman · Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Saturation Biopsy done

Chris, unfortunately, Prostate Cancer can be hard to biopsy. I do not know why this is the case, but you are not alone. I can only imagine how difficult this "uncertainty" is for you and your family! I also do not know why some men have high PSAs with no cancer. There are other reasons for high PSAs that I listed above, but which ones apply to you, I cannot say. However, again, you are not alone. Many men have double digit PSAs but no sign of cancer. A very few of them are misdiagnosed and actually do have cancer. I live with the knowledge that someday my cancer will return. You and I have a choice: we can live each day as if we are dying or we can live each day as if we have been given a precious gift... the gift of a new day in which to live. I chose not to keep looking over my shoulder to see if the cancer is coming back. I do have regular MRIs and doctors' appointments but they are just a part of my life now. I hope that you can find peace of mind.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

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