SUCCESS OF BIOPSY???

anil111 · New User Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 9

SUCCESS OF BIOPSY???

Last night I heard a leading person from Bechman [?] who makes PSA testing equipment. I asked him about how good is Biopsy in determining the cancer. [ {I know of someone who had biopsy done and was told he had cancer. Did not do anything. After a year another doc did biopsy and could not find cancer. He died after 3 years as cancer spread} ] He said it is not very reliable and can miss some cancer cells in erly stages if biopsy was not done at that location. He said their new test called ""free PSA"" is much more reliable than biopsy.

Anyone has comments on this??

Also one survivor told me that Dopler color biopsy is much more reliable than regular one. How to find docs using this tool in north NJ/USA? any comments?
_________________
ANIL

DavidCohen · Regular Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

[quote="anil111"]SUCCESS OF BIOPSY???

Last night I heard a leading person from Bechman [?] who makes PSA testing equipment. I asked him about how good is Biopsy in determining the cancer. [ {I know of someone who had biopsy done and was told he had cancer. Did not do anything. After a year another doc did biopsy and could not find cancer. He died after 3 years as cancer spread} ] He said it is not very reliable and can miss some cancer cells in erly stages if biopsy was not done at that location. He said their new test called ""free PSA"" is much more reliable than biopsy.

Anyone has comments on this??

Also one survivor told me that Dopler color biopsy is much more reliable than regular one. How to find docs using this tool in north NJ/USA? any comments?[/quote]

Once the biopsy shows it, you must do something immediately, especially if the PSA is over 4.0. If they do another biopsy and later it shows nothing, DON'T assume the cancer is gone. They could have biopsied a different area.

The free PSA is much better at determining PCa, but keep in mind, you have to look at the total picture, the DRE, free PSA, bone scan, biopsy, etc.

anil111 · New User Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 9

DavidCohen

Thank you very much for your reply.

I will go along with your advice and get biopsy done.

However I was told that Dopler Color Sono is the best to determine if the cancer is definitely there or not. Regular biopsy can miss it.

Any comments?? Site info for Dopler Color Sono???
_________________
ANIL

DavidCohen · Regular Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

[quote="anil111"]DavidCohen

Thank you very much for your reply.

I will go along with your advice and get biopsy done.

However I was told that Dopler Color Sono is the best to determine if the cancer is definitely there or not. Regular biopsy can miss it.

Any comments?? Site info for Dopler Color Sono???[/quote]
Only a biopsy will give a definite answer. Yes, you can do a doppler for more info, but you have to know what the cells look like under a microscope.

leo · Site Admin Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1574

Hello

Once a biopsy result is positive, it doesn't matter if subsequent results are negative. Cancer has been diagnosed and must be treated as such. As far as biopsies go, they are very reliable, and when one undergoes proste biopsies, there are many samples taken from different areas of the prostate.

best regards,
Leo
_________________
Leonardo F - Webmaster Cancer Forums
Disclaimer: this information is for informational purposes only. It is not medical advice.

Richard Carlstedt · New User Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6

One thing to consider when having any Cancer Biopsy done, is to get a second opinion. I demanded that this be done when my biopsy was taken 3 months ago. I told the Dr. that I wanted John Hopkins to review the samples( 2nd opinon!).
Turned out that the first read was inconclusive, so the samples were sent on to JH. I had a 3+3 in one needle of eight. Had a RP done in May and the pathology confirmed 3 points of PC, and the surgery got it all (contained ). The ( culprit) sample in the needle was less than 1 mm long and could have easily been overlooked

Several years ago, a lab screwed up and a group of women were mis-diagnosed as being "Cancer free" when the bio's were really Positive. They all died and the lab was sued by the spouses. A doctor on TV at that time said to NEVER accept one labs opion on something as important as a Cancer determination....I can Validate that 100%.
it's your life that you have on the line

My Best
Rich

Richard Carlstedt · New User Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6

One More thing. Free PSA is not new to my knowledge.
5 years ago my Uroligist had me take it twice and the (same) results (11) "predicted" that I had a good chance of developing PC within 10 years.
I had a Bio at the time with no PC showing, so I went on a watch period with 6 month checkups.
They are doing a lot of work with "Free PSA" , so maybe it's getting better.
Some Doc's I have talked to don't believe in it yet..

My Best
Rich

DavidCohen · Regular Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

[quote="anil111"]DavidCohen

Thank you very much for your reply.

I will go along with your advice and get biopsy done.

However I was told that Dopler Color Sono is the best to determine if the cancer is definitely there or not. Regular biopsy can miss it.

Any comments?? Site info for Dopler Color Sono???[/quote]

From what I have heard, the biopsy is 80-95% reliable, especially if they do 12 samples. I personally have not know of anyone that the biopsy did not give the correct result.

Richard Carlstedt · New User Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6

I don't know about color dopler sono..
In my case, the ultrasound did NOT show the focus of Cancer during the biopsy. That told me that seeds would not work for me, as the CA was not really apparent. I see my Doc on Tuesday for my 6 week check, and I will ask him what ultra they used and about color dopler.

Technically , you could say that with a 12 needle biopsey, you check every 8.5% of the Prostate (100/12=8.5%)
A 8 needle sample covers only 12% of each section.
This assumes that the needles are truly spaced and go deep enough.
So a 12 needle biopsey has 50 % greater chance of finding PCif it is there.

The prostate had a 41 volume/weight??
if you assign a factor of .06 per unit, you get about a 2.5 expected PSA. Since mine was 5.7, I was over by 3 points (5.7-2.5=3.1)
Since PC makes a PSA of 1.0 per unit of volume (vs .06 with normal tissue), it said that I (Possibly) had 3 units of PC in the 41, or about 7.5% of the prostate had CA . This would be a very low volume of PC to detect with the biopsy, especially with only 8 needles, but it did.
Dave your comment about not knowing anyone who had PC that wasn't detected is understandable, I guess I should have said when the volume (hence low PSA) is not much,that, and being accurate with the small samples can be critical, and labs make mistakes. By having 2 different people look at the same tissue sample, I halved the error in evaluating my samples.

The numbers I use above are from reading various PC articles and were helpful to me in my own evaluation. My doctor did not quote or use this factor.There may be diiferent types of PC that have other quotients ??
Cheers
Rich

Richard Carlstedt · New User Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6

Well , I saw the Doc, and he said the ultrasound is a color dopler and less than 6 months old..
As mentioned earlier , it did not see my Cancer Focus

DavidCohen · Regular Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 37

[quote="Richard Carlstedt"]Well , I saw the Doc, and he said the ultrasound is a color dopler and less than 6 months old..
As mentioned earlier , it did not see my Cancer Focus[/quote]
This sounds like a case of watchful waiting. You may be fine.

David

Richard Carlstedt · New User Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6

Dave, I already had a Radical Prostatecomyin May..and I will be fine, since they got all the PC..My comment related to the fact I had PC and the dopler [u]didnot[/u] see it. The biopsey did !

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