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Thread: PSA and Cancer Spreading?? Lupron??

  1. #1
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    PSA and Cancer Spreading?? Lupron??

    Hello

    My dad (77) has stage 4 PC. It was discovered in April 2010 when he was hospitalized after loosing his balance and falling along with having headaches. They found a brain tumor which had spread from the Prostate. The brain tumor was removed in May and radiation on the brain was done. MRI shows no new regrowth.

    Now Dad is on Lupron and his PSA levels are very low. Bone scan is fine and major organs are too.

    My question is can advanced prostate cancer spread while the PSA is low or does the PSA have to be high for spreading to occur??

    Lupron?? How long can Lupron work for an advanced PC patient?? Average?

    Worried and scared....

    Prayers to every family battling this horrible disease....

  2. #2
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    The amount of cancer (PC) is pretty much directly related to the PSA number. When that number is above 50, things are not going well..

    How men respond to hormone therapy is very hard if not impossible to predict..Some men remain in remission for 10 years and others are gone in a year..it's a wait and see game....have you read Dr. Stuffy Myers book which deals with advanced PC?
    PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE negative.
    65: 8.5, DRE " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
    66 9.0 DRE "normal", BPH, (Proscar)
    67 4.5 DRE "normal" second biopsy, negative.
    67.5 5.6, DRE "normal" U-doc worried..
    age 68, 7.0, third biopsy (June 2010) positive for cancer in 4 cores, 2 cores Gleason 6, one core Gleason 7. one core Gleason 9. RALP on Sept. 3, 2010, Positive margin, post-op PSA. 0.9, SRT , HT. Feb.2011 PSA <0.1 Oct 2011 <0.1 Feb 2012 <0.01 Sept 2012 0.8 June 2013 1.1, Casodex added, PSA 0.04 10/2013. PSA 0.32 1/14

  3. #3
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    This is serious to have early brain mets from PCa, it is rare. It took years for such to show up in the case of Howard Hansen, he lived 17 yrs. in his mutilple protocols of fighting this and is an icon and was a mentor on information and used to head up hrpca.org group..someone else has taken over. Join the group and read this about other 'proven treatments' to fight PCa....Lupron...is not the end of this battle. www.hrpca.org (tab to proven treatments....Howard developed alot of this information for others....super legacy for PCa as a whole...was one of the best). You might find his story here:
    www.paulhansen.com
    Last edited by neutrondbob; 01-20-2011 at 03:33 PM. Reason: more info
    "Youth is wasted on the Young"-W.C. Fields

  4. #4
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    Hi msds, - Often, PSA increases with Cancer severity, BUT, there is a particularly aggressive form of Prostate Cancer (PCa) that does not produce much PSA and, consequently, its severity is not reflected by highly elevated PSA readings. This MIGHT be the situation here, although you provide no detailed numbers. In such cases, YES, it is possible for PCa to spread with low PSA readings.

    Lupron use is often used as part of a regimen of Hormone Therapy (HT) and is a palliative treatment rather than a curative form of treatment. The effectiveness of Lupron, as with HT itself varies WIDELY by individual patient. Treatment for Stage 4, advanced PCa is designed to try and control rather than to "cure" the disease. The fact that your Dad had a metastasis to the brain, means that malignant cells are circulating throughout the body and can take "seed" anywhere it can find a compatible host site. There is no way to predict where or when it may strike next.

    The BEST case scenario is that it does not find another such a host site during his natural life expectancy and eventually dies of other natural causes. Good luck to you both! - John@newPCa.org (aka) az4peaks

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by msds View Post
    Hello

    My dad (77) has stage 4 PC. It was discovered in April 2010 when he was hospitalized after loosing his balance and falling along with having headaches. They found a brain tumor which had spread from the Prostate. The brain tumor was removed in May and radiation on the brain was done. MRI shows no new regrowth.

    Now Dad is on Lupron and his PSA levels are very low. Bone scan is fine and major organs are too.

    My question is can advanced prostate cancer spread while the PSA is low or does the PSA have to be high for spreading to occur??

    Lupron?? How long can Lupron work for an advanced PC patient?? Average?

    Worried and scared....

    Prayers to every family battling this horrible disease....
    John gave you some things to think about I figured might as well add some more discussion: (how long Lupron works) varies and nobody can say precisely, but if it is a rare aggressive type of PCa, then you will likely see it doesn't work all that long.

    PCa comes in many variants or types, different ploidy analysis of the DNA on pathology can reveal 3 different classifications on that DNA...the further the PCa gets from normal pairs of chromosomes called 'diploid' it seems PCa gets harder to control and may respond less to drug therapies, in general. There is one variant that is seen occassionally called small cell PCa, it can have low psa values but be very aggressive (we cannot know if this is in your situation right now). The things that could be reviewed by an expert pathologist like Bostwick might reveal if you have a variant and perhaps what type and if you pay extra could get ploidy analysis on the DNA...these might lead a PCa oncology specialist like: Scholz, Lam, Sartor, Myers, Vogelzang, Leibowitz, et al....as to how to best treat the disease for possible control. The average doc and especially a uro-doc is unqualified to handle this type of scenario with brains mets...but that is yours to consider. You need the best experts you can find and the free lance types like I mentioned are not tied to a hospital whereby they only use very conservative approaches to deal with high risk patients, they will not go outside the box and only offer a few protocols. You can go over to www.yananow.net (mentors/experiences) and see PCa histories and people still living and what their treatments are or were....notice it varies alot...there are many paths to treating PCa and finding some results. Question everything, do not be fooled into complacency that any doc on this is an expert.....maybe an expert at removing or zapping, but on oncology that is a small number of real experts. Some docs don't even know there are 24 variants now identified:

    www.yananow.net/24Variants.pdf
    www.webpathology.com/case.asp?case=23 (prior was 18 variants, see some photos herein)

    Sorry you have to face this in your life.
    "Youth is wasted on the Young"-W.C. Fields

  6. #6
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    Thank you for the replies.

    My Dad's psa at the highest was 25. Currently it is .5. I know it is not too common to have PC spread to the brain only usually bones are involved. However I fear that is the next step. Hope that the cancer can be contained as much as possible.

    Dad just had his 5th Lupron shot the other day. Oncologist says its working well.

    He also has blood clots in his legs and is on Coumadin.

  7. #7
    Hi everyone! I am new at this and just learning about this site. My Dad has stage 4 PCa. He has been on hormone therapy for the last year or so, but now has a PSA of 67. His testosterone level is normal. Bone scans clear. It is metastic in the lymph nodes. The drs. were thinking he has a severe prostate infection/bladder infection. My question is if that is possibly the cause of this sky-rocketing PSA?

  8. #8
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    Stayingpositive, welcome to the board! You can start your own thread anytime...

    I have one question..If your dad is on HT, his testosterone level should not be normal, it should be under 20 and hopefully less than that.. Normal is 250-700 depending on your dad's age. You need to get that cleared up...But yes, an infected prostate can elevate PSA readings but rarely as high as 67...

 
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