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Thread: Broccoli Seed Extract

  1. #11
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    Pomi-T..You get the Big Four including Broccoli in one capsule...Does it do anything? Who knows....but it can't hurt and it's fairly cheap..
    PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE negative.
    65: 8.5, DRE " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
    66 9.0 DRE "normal", BPH, (Proscar)
    67 4.5 DRE "normal" second biopsy, negative.
    67.5 5.6, DRE "normal" U-doc worried..
    age 68, 7.0, third biopsy (June 2010) positive for cancer in 4 cores, 2 cores Gleason 6, one core Gleason 7. one core Gleason 9. RALP on Sept. 3, 2010, Positive margin, post-op PSA. 0.9, SRT , HT. Feb.2011 PSA <0.1 Oct 2011 <0.1 Feb 2012 <0.01 Sept 2012 0.8 June 2013 1.1, Casodex added, PSA 0.04 10/2013. PSA 0.32 1/14. On 6/14 PSA 0.4, "T"-5. 10/14 PSA 0.6, T-11. 1/2015 PSA 0.106. 4/15. 0.4, 9/15 1.4, 3/16 Zytiga, 0.04, 5/17 1.4 may switch to Xtandi

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairwind View Post
    Pomi-T..You get the Big Four including Broccoli in one capsule...Does it do anything? Who knows....but it can't hurt and it's fairly cheap..
    There is a potential issue. If PSA is a reliable indicator for you and you are monitoring your PSA to track growth or BCR, supplements and diet changes that naturally effect PSA spoil your baseline. Just because these agents reduce natural production of PSA does not mean they are effecting the cancer.

    Do not collapse the treatment of symptoms into treatment of the disease. You can affect a fever with Tylenol. It makes you more comfortable while your body is fighting the infection, but what if monitoring your fever is critical to the treatment of your disease? A doctor may say if your fever hits 100 go to the ER. If your taking mega doses of Tylenol and suppressing your fever by 2-3 degrees your body will be at a 103 real threshold fighting your infection before you seek treatment.

    It's the same advice we give about activities we know can increase PSA before tests. Do not do them before a test if you are relying on the test as a diagnostic tool for prostate cancer.

    My mother takes coumadin to thin her blood. It's a life saving therapy. Eating certain foods effects her blood levels of a balanced medication. She doesn't eat those foods and substitues their nutritional benefits in other ways that do not corrupt her current medical regimen.

    Dr. Aaron Katz's holistic approach is a gamble not supported by reliable studies, imo. I can reduce your PSA pretty quick by giving you anything that will suppress your hormones. It might buy you some time, but it will not cure your cancer. It will also interfer with any treatment cure being monitored by your PSA.

    Short answer to manipulating your PSA. Hormone therapy reduces your PSA. It does not cure cancer. Remission - maybe, but not a cure. If you're playing for a cure do not mess with your PSA.
    Last edited by Another; 10-02-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior User Dead Man Walking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another View Post
    Diet and supplements will mess with your PSA, but they will not cure or prevent prostate cancer.

    Funding for this review was provided by Hallelujah Diet a bibicaly based diet.

    Dr. Aaron Katz sells a veggie/vitamin D supplement. I personally believe vegetables are good in your diet and many older Americans suffer vitamin D deficiency. It is a crucial vitamin. I recommend you have your vitamin D levels tested and take D3 if necessary. Also, get outside in the sun!
    AHA!!! While I didn't directly detect the smell of snake oil or fish, I knew there was something wrong somewhere!!
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    06/??/16 TSHTF!! 3+7 doesn't touch AML, knocks out immune system, infections nearly kill me. Blasts 65%
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  4. #14
    Senior User DjinTonic's Avatar
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    Brother Another posted
    There is a potential issue. If PSA is a reliable indicator for you and you are monitoring your PSA to track growth or BCR, supplements and diet changes that naturally effect PSA spoil your baseline. Just because these agents reduce natural production of PSA does not mean they are effecting the cancer.
    Here is the double-bind Pomi-T study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4020278/ These preliminary results are promising.

    I'll ask my doc whether it's OK to take it after RP regarding PSA lowering/monitoring. The article cites studies that its 4 ingredients may work by inducing apoptosis (tumor-cell death) and would therefore be a slowing of the cancer itself (and, consequently, PSA), not an artificial lowering via hormones.

    If my doc OK's it, I will be taking it. I would think that just as you do a PSA mental "correction" if you take Proscar or similar (it appx. halves your PSA, so the doc doubles the lab value to get your "real" PSA), you could do a "new baseline" or have your doc make a note in your chart of the date you start a supplement. Even if it's an artificial lowering, you would still expect an upward trend thereafter if the tumor cells are growing.

    Djin
    Last edited by DjinTonic; 10-02-2017 at 04:51 PM.
    69 yr at Dx, 20-yr Hx of BPH, 9 (!) negative biopsies, PCA3 -
    TURP 2014 (90→30 g) then PSA every 6 months, DRE yearly
    DRE 6-6-17 nodule R, PSA 7.2→8.6
    Biopsy #10 6-28-17, 2/14 cores: G10 (5+5) 3% RB, G9 (4+5) 50% RLM
    Bone scan & CAP CTs: negative
    Open RP 8-7-17 at Duke Regional (NC) by my Uro, did my '14 TURP, 8-20 RPs/month >20 yr
    SM/LVI/SVI/EPE/LNI (16): negative, PNI +, nerves spared
    pT2c pN0, b/l adenocarcinoma G9 (4+5) 5% of prostate (4.5x5x4 cm, 64 g)
    Cath 2 weeks, very slight stress dribble at 11 weeks, improving
    PSA 9-16-17 (5 weeks) <0.1
    ED (BPH) still OK with sildenafil
    Awaiting Decipher result, taking Pomi-T
    Next visit discuss: checkup schedule, Decipher, BCR, SRT, uPSA

  5. #15
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    This is a very carefully crafted review. Be careful. It's own comparison promotes it as a possible treatment similar to hormone therapy, but cheaper. It doesn't know where it is going except it does seem to reduce PSA. Let me know if the study quanitfied remission or reduction in tumors. I didn't see it. My point still stands. It reduces PSA and what I consider arbitrary multipliers at this point will not be of much use with the low levels used in designating BCR or those with high grade cancer and low PSA levels, and on and on....

  6. #16
    Senior User DjinTonic's Avatar
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    Another posted "This is a very carefully crafted review. Be careful. "

    Absolutely! Points well taken. One take-home message appears to be that these foods/supplements seems to be doing something that's worth further investigation.

    Djin
    Last edited by DjinTonic; 10-03-2017 at 12:36 AM.

  7. #17
    Slightly off the point, but having to do with supplements and PCa. There was a long thread last year on another forum about vitamin D and prostate cancer. The OP believed that having low D seemed to be correlated with being diagnosed with PCa. A dominant poster, who is regarded as a guru on that forum, wrote that there were no studies supporting a benefit for vitamin D and prostate cancer.

    Well, I know that I was told that my D was low before my PCa was found, so I posted that. Then, maybe seven other guys posted the same thing.


    Maybe that's all anecdotal, but when it's happened to you, its real. The dominant poster finally gave up arguing with us. I have been taking D since diagnosis, and, well, it hasn't hurt.
    DOB: May 1944
    In Active Surveillance program at Johns Hopkins
    Five biopsies from 2009 to 2014. The third and fourth biopsies were positive with one core and three cores <5% and G 3+3. Fifth biopsy was negative.
    OncotypeDX: 86 percent chance of PCa remaining indolent
    August 2015: tests are stable; no MRI or biopsy this year for my AS program
    August 2016: MRI unchanged from 2/2014; PSA=3.9; FPSA=26; PHI=28. No biopsy necessary.

    A NOTE ON PSA: My readings have been erratic for over 10 years; typically being 3.5-4.2, but spiking to over 10 at times.
    These spikes are asymtomatic to me, and resolve themselves. A prostate biopsy can triple the PSA, which lasts for months.
    Last Free PSA was 26. I don't worry about PSA spikes anymore.

  8. #18
    Same as ASA. In fact, I think I might have been one of the seven guys whomposted on that thread, that I had very low D before diagnosis. It's normal now, with 5000 in daily supplement D-3.
    Diagnosed at age 64 (in November, 2014), PSA 4.32
    Nov 2014 BX 3 of 12 cores positive original pathology G6 10%, G6 20%, second biopsy, 1st negative
    G8 (3+5), 70%. Johns Hopkins second opinion, G3+5=8 downgraded to 3+3=6 @80%
    Surgery with Dr Ash Tewari Jan 6, 2015
    Post surgical pathology, stage T2c, bilateral disease, upstaged to G7(3+4)
    5% of Prostate involved in Tumor
    Organ confined, negative Margins, negative SV, negative lymph nodes (9) PNI positive
    PSA 2/15 <.02, 4/15<.02, 7/15<.02, 10/15 0.00 (different lab), 1/16 0.00, 6/16 <.02, 1.17, .02 (uh-oh), 2/17 .02. May 2017 <.1 Lab did standard test.
    Repeat 5/17, .033 (new lab). Next test sept 2017
    Decipher score low risk, .37%

  9. #19
    Senior User DjinTonic's Avatar
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    More on Pomi-T

    Quote Originally Posted by Another View Post
    Diet and supplements will mess with your PSA, but they will not cure or prevent prostate cancer.
    The more I read about the mechanisms of action of the 4 ingredients of Pomi-T on PCa cells, the more interested in starting it I've become.

    A double-blind, placebo RCT evaluating the effect of a polyphenol-rich whole food supplement on PSA progression in men with prostate cancer: The U.K. National Cancer Research Network (NCRN) Pomi-T study.

    full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4020278/

    As an added benefit there seems to be an improvement in urinary symptoms.


    Djin
    69 yr at Dx, 20-yr Hx of BPH, 9 (!) negative biopsies, PCA3 -
    TURP 2014 (90→30 g) then PSA every 6 months, DRE yearly
    DRE 6-6-17 nodule R, PSA 7.2→8.6
    Biopsy #10 6-28-17, 2/14 cores: G10 (5+5) 3% RB, G9 (4+5) 50% RLM
    Bone scan & CAP CTs: negative
    Open RP 8-7-17 at Duke Regional (NC) by my Uro, did my '14 TURP, 8-20 RPs/month >20 yr
    SM/LVI/SVI/EPE/LNI (16): negative, PNI +, nerves spared
    pT2c pN0, b/l adenocarcinoma G9 (4+5) 5% of prostate (4.5x5x4 cm, 64 g)
    Cath 2 weeks, very slight stress dribble at 11 weeks, improving
    PSA 9-16-17 (5 weeks) <0.1
    ED (BPH) still OK with sildenafil
    Awaiting Decipher result, taking Pomi-T
    Next visit discuss: checkup schedule, Decipher, BCR, SRT, uPSA

  10. #20
    Administrator Top User ChemoMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratoman View Post
    Same as ASA. In fact, I think I might have been one of the seven guys whomposted on that thread, that I had very low D before diagnosis. It's normal now, with 5000 in daily supplement D-3.
    Interesting but...
    Is it the low levels of vitamin D that is the problem or the lifestyle that causes the low levels of vitamin D.

    A worker who works indoors for 8 hours a day sitting in front of a computer screen will have low levels of Vitamin D. This person is also likely to be unfit and overweight which are all risk factors for prostate cancer as well as many other cancers. Someone who is fit and active eats well and gets adequate sunshine will not have low levels of vitamin D . So what is at play here is it the lifestyle or the vitamin D that is the protective factor ?

    The way I see it swallowing vitamin D pills while maintaing an unhealthy lifestyle will do nothing but produce a cadaver with the recommended levels of vit D.

    The same goes for brocolli extract.People who have adequate levels of the beneficial compound in brocolli are also likely to have healthy lifestyles, eat good food, not smoke or drink and exercise regularly.

    We in the west sometimes fail to see the forest and can only see the nearby trees. The thought that somehow taking a pill that contains a substance that healthy people with wholesome lifestyles naturally consume, while living poorly eating crap, not exercising, getting fat while smoking and drinking is a fools game.

    Now I am not accusing anyone here of anything but unless you can honestly say with your hand on your heart that you are living healthy no amount of magic pills are going to help

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