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Thread: Warning regarding cannabidiol and colon cancer

  1. #1
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    Warning regarding cannabidiol and colon cancer

    It has taken me a while to get myself to post this. My mother died in November 2018. She was diagnosed with colon cancer in early 2017. Surgery resulted in 'an all clear' diagnosis, with the suggestion she have chemo as a precaution. Instead my mother opted for cannabidiol, as she had complications from another illness and felt the chemo would be unbearable. The cannabidiol apparently was tested by a lab in the Netherlands according to my family. I was less enthusiastic. I left the issue until my Mother went for further testing in the first half of 2018 revealing the cancer had returned, and spread to the liver - which I suppose would be classified as stage IV. My family decided they needed to increase the dose, to the point my mother was sleeping much of the day.

    I conducted further research in medical journals. I could not find any clinical trials (on humans), only pre-clinical trials. One paper in particular bothered me. They indicated that there was a pathway by which they believed cannabidiol could in fact increase the spread of colon cancer. However, since there were no clinical trials related to colon cancer, there was no firm evidence. I sent my research to my family, but did not succeed in persuading them to cease treatment with cannabidiol. I lived far away and was not in a position to press the point, except on occasional visits.

    So in my hope to prevent further suffering, I suggest you conduct careful research in medical journals (preferably peer reviewed journals - for instance a search on Google Scholar would be more likely to identify such papers) before making any rash decisions. There may be ways of using cannabidiol with other drugs, but it is far from clear how this could be accomplished. You would need to find a willing doctor who could aid you in navigating this area. Here are a few excerpts from my research - in italics below - that may assist:

    Excerpt from "The putative cannabinoid receptor GPR55 promotes cancer cell proliferation"; G Hu et al; Oncogene 30, 139–141 (13 January 2011)DOIdoi:10.1038/onc.2010.502

    " Given that cannabinoids exhibit antitumor effects as CB1/CB2 agonists AND protumor effects as GPR55 agonists, and different cancer cells express different ratio of CB1/CB2 to GPR55, it is reasonable to propose that examination of the coexpression status of CB1/CB2 and GPR55 should be a novel approach for selecting cancer types that are more suitable for a specific therapy."

    Excerpt from "Turned-Off Cannabinoid Receptor Turns On Colorectal Tumor Growth"

    "Just increasing the levels of cannabinoids to treat colorectal cancer won't work if the CB1 receptor is not present," DuBois said. This suggests that treating first with a demethylating agent, such as decitabine, to reactivate CB1 in the tumor and following up with a cannabinoid might be an effective attack on colorectal cancer."

    Excerpt from "GPR55 promotes migration and adhesion of colon cancer cells indicating a role in
    Metastasis"; J Kargl et al.; British Journal of Pharmacology (2016) 173 142–154
    " HCT116 cells showed a significant decrease in adhesion to endothelial cells and in migration after blockade with CID16020046 or cannabidiol. The inhibitory effects of CID16020046 or cannabidiol were averted by GPR55 siRNA knock down in cancer cells."
    Appendix: Other correlates of cancer cell growth – liver and other tissue
    Extract from "Nuclear Protein p8 Is Associated With Glucose-Induced Pancreatic β-Cell Growth; Günter Päth et al.; Diabetes 2004 Feb; 53(suppl 1): S82 S85. https://doi.org/10.2337/diabetes.53.2007.S82

    " Incubation of rat INS-1 β-cells with 25 mmol/l glucose resulted in a continuous increase of proliferating cell numbers. This was accompanied by a strong upregulation of p8 mRNA and protein expression, indicating that p8 is a physiological mediator of glucose-induced pancreatic β-cell growth. "

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...53/suppl_1/S82

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Top User Baz10's Avatar
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    Interesting post however, irrespective of the peer studies to which you refer I will make comment later.
    What I find inconceivable is “ family decided to increase the dose whereby my mother was sleeping much of the day”.
    whether one uses diamorphine in a controlled clinical environment so called end of life care this is one scenario where the hospital, hospice or indeed a medical professional stays within the guidelines of what is in many countries mandatory staying within the dosages (varies by country) required to prevent euthanasia charges.
    To family members administering higher dosage of canobidiol (I assume not a medically prescribed dosage) is in my lowly opinion utterly incomprehensible.

    That said it is my opinion and comment given what you have said this was wholly wrong, not suggesting at all the outcome would have been different.

    Note my brother in law had stage IV Colon cancer with substantial liver metastasis was pronounced Terminal and placed on a terminal ward in the hospital on a Diamorphine / Anxiety driver.
    As morphine, synthesised opiates, cannabis oils (for clarity) etc are cumulative in effect there can only be one outcome if regularly administered.

    Now, within the U.K. where prescribing conoidals came under controlled opiates governance umbrella and was illegal, this restriction has been lifted whereby cannabis oil can be prescribed on a discretionary medical only basis and is as such extremely restricted.

    The peer debates continues as to what specific circumstances cannobiods can /should be administered as per se.
    With the exception of certain mental conditions can be medically prescribed to control seizures, ticks, there is no proven efficacy with any hard cancer.
    Barry
    Diagnosed stage 3 March 011
    Radical resection April 011
    Restaged 2b April 011.
    12/09 Colonoscopy clear but picked up hospital infection.
    Aorta & femoral arteries occluded.
    Clot buster drugs put me in ICU with internal bleeding. 9 blood units later they got it under control.
    Aortobifemoral surgery 5th May. yughh.
    PET scan indicates clear
    DEXA bone scan clear
    13/5 CT showed "unknown" but no concern from docs.
    Inguinal lymph nodes and severe groin pain.
    Ultrasound and MRI show no nasties. Pheww
    Groin pain and enlarged lymph nodes still there.
    October -still the same pains but under semi control.
    Additional chest CT scan ordered for 11th November prior to surgery.
    Sinus surgery done and dusted.
    July 2014 PSA at 5.10. 2months of antibiotics in case of UTI, jan 2015 PSA at 7.20, 23/08 now 8.2, current 8.1
    Prostate Cancer confirmed Gleason 3+Marginal 4.
    Active surveillance continues.
    PET CT Aug 2017 indicated lung nodule changes
    CT Guided biopsy 7/09
    November 1 Vats Wedge section pathology Glomulated previous infection
    no Cancer.

    Not all's rosy in the garden, but see following.
    Stop grumbling Baz, your still alive and kicking so far.
    Age and illness doesn't define who we are, but more what we are able to do.
    Motto
    Do what I love doing, when I can until I can't.
    and dodging bullets in the meanwhile, too many bullets at moment.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz10 View Post
    Interesting post however, irrespective of the peer studies to which you refer I will make comment later.
    What I find inconceivable is “ family decided to increase the dose whereby my mother was sleeping much of the day”.
    whether one uses diamorphine in a controlled clinical environment so called end of life care this is one scenario where the hospital, hospice or indeed a medical professional stays within the guidelines of what is in many countries mandatory staying within the dosages (varies by country) required to prevent euthanasia charges.
    To family members administering higher dosage of canobidiol (I assume not a medically prescribed dosage) is in my lowly opinion utterly incomprehensible.

    That said it is my opinion and comment given what you have said this was wholly wrong, not suggesting at all the outcome would have been different.

    Note my brother in law had stage IV Colon cancer with substantial liver metastasis was pronounced Terminal and placed on a terminal ward in the hospital on a Diamorphine / Anxiety driver.
    As morphine, synthesised opiates, cannabis oils (for clarity) etc are cumulative in effect there can only be one outcome if regularly administered.

    Now, within the U.K. where prescribing conoidals came under controlled opiates governance umbrella and was illegal, this restriction has been lifted whereby cannabis oil can be prescribed on a discretionary medical only basis and is as such extremely restricted.

    The peer debates continues as to what specific circumstances cannobiods can /should be administered as per se.
    With the exception of certain mental conditions can be medically prescribed to control seizures, ticks, there is no proven efficacy with any hard cancer.
    Barry


    I'm sure your laws are quite different - in general the UK is a fairly restrictive environment, and I'm sure enforcement is also more robust. Unfortunately, it is legal here. In fact you will see professional marketing of the stuff, with sales rep's cars emblazoned with adverts.

    My mother was lucid and agreed to it, my family would never had just administered it without permission (it is orally administered after all). In the end stages my mother asked to be admitted to hospice. She did not wish to end up in hospital again, nor did she wish to follow the conventional approach (i.e. use chemo) for the reasons outlined in my original post.

    When I asked about monitoring and further scans to determine whether the treatment was having any effect - as far as I understood it - the specialist wasn't interested in doing so as long as my mother refused to adhere to conventional protocols.

    My hope in posting this is that others will not buy into the hype around cannabidiol as a 'magic bullet' for the treatment of cancer. Each cancer is different, and there is reason (see the literature excerpts in my first post) to think cannabidiol may in fact metastasize colon cancer. There are no clinical trial thus far, only pre-clinical (either invitro or animal models).

    So please, anyone reading this, consult specialists, present them with the literature you have in case they are unaware. Even if they are dismissive try to press them to debate/engage. Don't just automatically reject conventional medicine and trust alternative medical practitioners at their word.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Top User Baz10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    5,438
    100% agree with your final sentence.
    Barry
    Diagnosed stage 3 March 011
    Radical resection April 011
    Restaged 2b April 011.
    12/09 Colonoscopy clear but picked up hospital infection.
    Aorta & femoral arteries occluded.
    Clot buster drugs put me in ICU with internal bleeding. 9 blood units later they got it under control.
    Aortobifemoral surgery 5th May. yughh.
    PET scan indicates clear
    DEXA bone scan clear
    13/5 CT showed "unknown" but no concern from docs.
    Inguinal lymph nodes and severe groin pain.
    Ultrasound and MRI show no nasties. Pheww
    Groin pain and enlarged lymph nodes still there.
    October -still the same pains but under semi control.
    Additional chest CT scan ordered for 11th November prior to surgery.
    Sinus surgery done and dusted.
    July 2014 PSA at 5.10. 2months of antibiotics in case of UTI, jan 2015 PSA at 7.20, 23/08 now 8.2, current 8.1
    Prostate Cancer confirmed Gleason 3+Marginal 4.
    Active surveillance continues.
    PET CT Aug 2017 indicated lung nodule changes
    CT Guided biopsy 7/09
    November 1 Vats Wedge section pathology Glomulated previous infection
    no Cancer.

    Not all's rosy in the garden, but see following.
    Stop grumbling Baz, your still alive and kicking so far.
    Age and illness doesn't define who we are, but more what we are able to do.
    Motto
    Do what I love doing, when I can until I can't.
    and dodging bullets in the meanwhile, too many bullets at moment.

 

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