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Thread: Catether Question

  1. #1

    Catether Question

    As so may know after my husband had cath removed after 6 days he had severe spasms. We'd they added the cath back and it's going to stay til Monday. Hubby super nervous about spasms. Can't blame him, they are terrible.. But I've been looking online and can't find anything. But how does a cath help heal the bladder. I assumed it was just to drain the bladder so you can void. I'm praying and hoping no bladder spasms after this 2nd cath removal. Thoughts???
    DOB 5/76
    Age 42
    PSA 2017 n/a, 1/2018 2.66 1/2019 3.39 Reset 2/019 3.04
    MRI 3/2019 3 Lesions 2 Pirads 3 and 1 Pirad 4
    Biopsy 4/11/2019
    PCA positive- all grade group 1 and Gleason score 6(3+3)
    RMB: involving 10% of 1 core
    RMM: involving10% of the tissue (fragmented specimen).
    RMA: High-grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia.
    RLB: involving 25% of 1 core.
    RLM: involving 70% of the tissue
    RLA: involving 50% of 1 core.
    LMB: involving 80% of 1 core.
    Lesion #2, in 3 of 3 cores, involving 80%
    of total tissue
    RALP 6/5/19 USMD Arlington Dr Robert Parham
    Cath 6 days, bladder spasms, cath back in for 5 days
    Grade group 1, Gleason 6(3+3)
    SV, bladder neck invasion, adipose tissue, ECE, Margins, 0 of 8 lym- all negative, prostate confined~ PT2N0
    10% of prostate involved by tumor

    Quest Diagnostics: uPSA
    9/7/19 (3m) <0.02
    1/4/20 ??

  2. #2
    It helps in the healing where the uretha was cut if I am not mistaken. I had a few spasms after mine was removed,they lasted a couple of days and were not constant. I have read of others on this forum having the same problem. Good luck and I hope the second time works out for him.

  3. #3
    I'm glad you asked this I was curious too. I was wondering if you couldn't just forego the catheter and wear depends. I think for me the catheter would be the worst part....catching it on furniture or having a clumsy kid step on it. Yikes.

    I hope and pray your husband's spasms don't recur.

  4. #4
    Thanks Ice.. My husband has hated and loved the catheter all in one day. Lol.. I am prayeful it won't be. This group has been spot on with their insight and recommendations and from I've read after posting about spasms, is that a little more cath time should do the trick.

  5. #5
    Top User
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1,867
    The prostate is directly below the bladder and the urethra from the bladder to the end of the penis runs throught it. The prostate is removed by cutting the urethra above and below it and removing the prostate and the section of urethra that runs through it.

    The remaing urethra is then stretched up and sewn back onto the bladder. The cath tube is inserted up the urethra into the bladder past this sewn connection. It is a structure or scaffolding to support this new connection holding it in place and aligned long enough for it to heal.

    It also keeps it open and free from swelling shut until the swelling goes down so the urine can drain out.

    The bladder is a powerful muscle that contracts and relaxes to expel or hold urine. An enlarged prostate presses in tightening and constricting the urethra. Over time the bladder muscle grows stronger and stronger having to work harder to expel urine through the ever shrinking and compressed urethra. This develops and enlarges the bladder mucle making it thicker and reducing its capacity or the volume of urine it could hold. This results in more frequent urination and incomplete emptying of the bladder and less control by the sphincter mucles themselves.

    The surgery truamatizes and swells the bladder muscle even more. Its not a happy camper. Its a angry and unhappy camper. Its whole chemical balance is disrupted. So, it cramps. It does what it does best which is to contract. It got your attention.

    The cath is sort of a time out for the poor guy. It relieves it from duty. Over the course of a few days it learns to stop working because it doesn't have to giving it time to heal. When it is removed it will take a few days for the bladder to kickstart itself back into duty. Urine will run out freely then for a few days. This is not to be confused with the incontinence associated with removal of two of the sphincter muscles you used to control urine flow and you lose in the surgery. You replace this by compensating with your pelvic floor muscles.

    This bladder cramping or spasms can happen if the cath is removed too soon or too late or just because its not a happy camper and muscle control is disrupted. Could be electrolytes, swelling, healing or just trying to get your attention. It worked. Cath goes back in for a few more days. There may be some more cramping when it comes back out, but it has had a few more days of r & r in the meantime and may be in a better mood.

    Mine spasmed from the cath being in too long. Once removed they occurred when urinating and diminished quickly over two days.

    I'm sure there is other and more awful pains, but I don't know what they would be and I hope I never find out.
    Last edited by Another; 06-15-2019 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior User
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    202
    Multiple people on this forum experienced the extremely painful symptoms you described, including myself. In my case and every case I read about on this forum (maybe I missed one) after the cath was put back in the second time there were no more pain problems after that. My pain was excruciating and I was afraid the pain would come back when the second cath was removed. It never came back. I do not believe your husband will have a recurrence of pain. Your husband may be sore but I highly doubt he will have that severe bladder spasm pain again.
    DOB 1961
    2010-05 2.42
    2015-07 7.0
    2015-08 5.4
    2016-02 6.2
    2016-09 7.86
    2017-02 7.2
    2017-05 5.65
    2017-06 biopsy 7 of 13 cores G6
    2017-10 7.11
    2018-04 7.47
    2018-11 11.80

    2019-01 Da Vinci RALP
    Pathology report:
    Final stage pT2C
    Histologic type: Acinar adenocarcinoma with focal mucinous features
    Grade: 3+4=7 35% pattern 4
    23% of prostate involved
    EPE-
    BNI-
    SVI-
    PNI+
    LVI+
    Margins focally positive [1-3 mm] 4 locations
    Cribriform pattern noted

    Roche ECLIA uPSA
    2019-03 0.133
    2019-04 0.116
    2019-05 0.143
    2019-06 0.140
    2019-07 0.183
    2019-08 0.197
    2019-08 Start Lupron/Casodex
    2019-09 Decipher score .49
    2019-10 0.007
    2019-10-14 Start salvage radiation 39 treatments 70.2Gy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Another View Post
    The prostate is directly below the bladder and the urethra from the bladder to the end of the penis runs throught it. The prostate is removed by cutting the urethra above and below it and removing the prostate and the section of urethra that runs through it.

    The remaing urethra is then stretched up and sewn back onto the bladder. The cath tube is inserted up the urethra into the bladder past this sewn connection. It is a structure or scaffolding to support this new connection holding it in place and aligned long enough for it to heal.

    It also keeps it open and free from swelling shut until the swelling goes down so the urine can drain out.

    The bladder is a powerful muscle that contracts and relaxes to expel or hold urine. An enlarged prostate presses in tightening and constricting the urethra. Over time the bladder muscle grows stronger and stronger having to work harder to expel urine through the ever shrinking and compressed urethra. This develops and enlarges the bladder mucle making it thicker and reducing its capacity or the volume of urine it could hold. This results in more frequent urination and incomplete emptying of the bladder and less control by the sphincter mucles themselves.

    The surgery truamatizes and swells the bladder muscle even more. Its not a happy camper. Its a angry and unhappy camper. Its whole chemical balance is disrupted. So, it cramps. It does what it does best which is to contract. It got your attention.

    The cath is sort of a time out for the poor guy. It relieves it from duty. Over the course of a few days it learns to stop working because it doesn't have to giving it time to heal. When it is removed it will take a few days for the bladder to kickstart itself back into duty. Urine will run out freely then for a few days. This is not to be confused with the incontinence associated with removal of two of the sphincter muscles you used to control urine flow and you lose in the surgery. You replace this by compensating with your pelvic floor muscles.

    This bladder cramping or spasms can happen if the cath is removed too soon or too late or just because its not a happy camper and muscle control is disrupted. Could be electrolytes, swelling, healing or just trying to get your attention. It worked. Cath goes back in for a few more days. There may be some more cramping when it comes back out, but it has had a few more days of r & r in the meantime and may be in a better mood.

    Mine spasmed from the cath being in too long. Once removed they occurred when urinating and diminished quickly over two days.

    I'm sure there is other and more awful pains, but I don't know what they would be and I hope I never find out.
    Well so much for my catheter free idea. That sounds about awful! 😀 I actually thought they cut the prostate off around that section of tubing.

    I sure hope there is some grand technological advancement before I have to have surgery someday. Maybe something wifi driven to control all this and not be so intrusive.

  8. #8
    Senior User
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    308
    Knocking on wood as I type this...

    As Brother Another stated, the catheter tube is scaffolding to support the sutured urethra, giving it a chance to heal.

    After my RALP, I had the catheter for two weeks. Other than irritation with the catheter at the head of the penis, it was a non-issue for me.

    I go in for additional surgery Wednesday, where once again, I get to be acquainted with Mr. Foley. This time it's only going to be for 24 hours, and then my wife or I will remove it. This is why I said knocking on wood at the start of the post.
    Age at Dx 57
    PCa History: Father, Uncles, Grandfathers

    Oct 2016 Biopsy 12 core: Adenocarcinoma, Gleason 4+3=7 Grade Group 3) w/PNI
    Left Lateral Base: Suspicious
    Left Lateral Mid: PIN
    Left Base: 4+3=7 (60% pattern 4) Core involvement 30% (5mm)
    Right Base: Suspicious
    Right Apex: 3+3=6 Core involvement 60% (7mm) discontinous
    Right Lateral Mid: 3+3=6 Core involvement 10% (1mm)
    Right Lateral Apex: 3+3=6 Core involvement 10% (1mm)

    Jan 2017 DaVinci - Dr. Grant Taylor - Pathology = pT2c or pT3a; Gleason 4+3=7; Weight: 42g

    Jun 2019 AMS800 installed - Dr. David Rapp - Jul 2019 activated

    ED: Light to moderate

    (Note: All PSA tests prior to Jun19 were done by LabCore)
    PSA_TESTS

    Apr 2016=5.1
    Jul 2016=4.7
    Aug 2016=5.13

    ----Surgery----

    Mar17<0.01
    Jul17<0.01
    Oct17<0.01
    Jan18<0.01
    May18<0.01
    Nov18<0.01
    Jan19<0.01
    Jun19<0.02

  9. #9
    For those dreading the Cath by the time you really feel like getting out and about it is gone anyway. I got used to it quickly, first couple of times you stand up and take off, it will remind you it is there. There is a clip on it for a reason,I figured that one out fairly quickly also.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lastchance View Post
    For those dreading the Cath by the time you really feel like getting out and about it is gone anyway. I got used to it quickly, first couple of times you stand up and take off, it will remind you it is there. There is a clip on it for a reason,I figured that one out fairly quickly also.
    For me if it had not been for the catheter I would have been out and about.
    YOB 1957

    DX 12/18, GS 8, 4+4 6/12 cores, LL Apex 100%, LM Apex 60%, LL Mid 50%, LMM 40%, LL Base 5%, LM <5%, Right side negative.

    3/6/19. Pathology - Grade Group 4 with Intraductal Carcinoma
    T3aNO, 1 mm EPE, GS8, 21 mm uni-focal tumor involved 10% of prostate.

    7 Nodes, SV, SM, PNI, and BNI were negative.

    LVI and Cribriform pattern present.

    Decipher .86 High Risk.

    Post Surgery PSA
    3/25/19 .03. (28 days)
    4/25/19 <.03. (58 days)
    5/25/19 <.02. (88 days)
    9/10/2019. <.02. (198 days)

    3 Part Modality Treatment

    2/25/19 Robotic Laparoendoscopic Single Site Surgery outpatient Cleveland Clinic,

    ADT - started 6/19, end date 6/21.

    ART - Completed 9/26/19. (78 Gy, yes, I glow in the dark)

 

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