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Thread: Ca 19-9

  1. #11
    David, I know you are of the belief that the notion of sugar fueling cancer is a myth, but do you get the impression that Gatenby takes the opposite view? I know this is not the main idea of the article, only a parenthetical comment, but I did notice this sentence:

    Gatenby thought this set of formulas could also describe how tumor cells compete with healthy cells for energy resources such as the glucose that fuels them.
    February 2016- diagnosed with PC
    March 2016- inoperable due to arteries, also liver mets suspected
    March 2016-January 2017 -Gemzar/Abraxane
    February 2017 surgery-PC tumour and liver mets removed at same time
    July 2018 Back on Gemzar/Abraxane due to rising CA 19-9. Scans were clear.
    January 2019 Tried FOLFIRINOX after G/A became ineffective. FFX doesn't work. CA 19-9 rising
    February 2019 two small tumors appear on liver
    May 2019 - CA 19-9 skyrocketing. Started IMRT radiation treatment.
    August 2019 MRI done. No Evidence of Disease (NED). CA 19-9 dropped significantly. Still not normal range.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator Top User ddessert's Avatar
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    Jackie, the problem with the “sugar feeds cancer” idea is not that sugar feed cancer, because it certainly does as sugar does for all cells in your body.

    The problem with “sugar feeds cancer” is the conclusion that if you eliminate sugar from your diet that the tumor will be starved out of existence. Our bodies will make the sugar out of other foods you eat, such as starches or carbohydrates.

    Another problem I have with eliminating sugar from your diet is that pancreatic cancer patients especially perish because of cachexia, or chronic wasting syndrome from a lack of calories. Telling a person who is wasting away that they should limit their caloric intake is wrong.

    I don’t see Gatenby’s statement as an opposite view.
    BRCA2 3398del5
    Dec 2010 - back/abd pain
    May 2011 - Unresectable stage III, 2.5cm tumor
    Jun-Aug 2011 - Gem/Cis, 9 rounds
    Oct-Nov 2011 - IMRT+Xeloda
    Oct 2011-Sep 2012 - shrinking tumor
    Feb 2012 - National Familial Pancreatic Study
    Aug 2012 - Downgraded to stage IIA, PGP
    Sep 2012 - Whipple, T3N0M0, 0.5cm tumor, 0/16 lymph nodes
    Dec 2012 - Quebec PanCan Study
    Sep 2012-May 2019 - NED
    Mar 2013-present - NCT01088789
    Jun 2019- NCT03805919
    @pancanology

  3. #13
    Thank you. So what you're saying is that, even if we limit our glucose intake, the cells will draw from sugar from carbs and starches. I also understand, first hand, that we need to maintain our weight. Mine has never returned to the pre-surgery number. Still, since sugar feed cells, would it be better to try to get calories from other places, as much as possible, and feed the body while starving the cancer?
    February 2016- diagnosed with PC
    March 2016- inoperable due to arteries, also liver mets suspected
    March 2016-January 2017 -Gemzar/Abraxane
    February 2017 surgery-PC tumour and liver mets removed at same time
    July 2018 Back on Gemzar/Abraxane due to rising CA 19-9. Scans were clear.
    January 2019 Tried FOLFIRINOX after G/A became ineffective. FFX doesn't work. CA 19-9 rising
    February 2019 two small tumors appear on liver
    May 2019 - CA 19-9 skyrocketing. Started IMRT radiation treatment.
    August 2019 MRI done. No Evidence of Disease (NED). CA 19-9 dropped significantly. Still not normal range.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator Top User ddessert's Avatar
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    If you limit your sugar intake, your body will still convert starches (using amylase), proteins and fats (gluconeogenesis) into sugars. Carbohydrates are just an umbrella term for various kinds of sugars and fiber.

    In the absence of sugar, your body will convert proteins and fats into sugar.

    I guess you could stop eating sugar, fats and protein to stop the tumor? Also, stop breathing because tumors need oxygen. And stop drinking water, because they need that, too.

    If you want to not eat sugar, that’s up to you. You don’t need my permission. Just don’t say I said it was a good idea.

  5. #15
    Oh, believe me. I don not want to not eat sugar. In fact, I'd like to eat more of it. I just want to know that it is safe.
    February 2016- diagnosed with PC
    March 2016- inoperable due to arteries, also liver mets suspected
    March 2016-January 2017 -Gemzar/Abraxane
    February 2017 surgery-PC tumour and liver mets removed at same time
    July 2018 Back on Gemzar/Abraxane due to rising CA 19-9. Scans were clear.
    January 2019 Tried FOLFIRINOX after G/A became ineffective. FFX doesn't work. CA 19-9 rising
    February 2019 two small tumors appear on liver
    May 2019 - CA 19-9 skyrocketing. Started IMRT radiation treatment.
    August 2019 MRI done. No Evidence of Disease (NED). CA 19-9 dropped significantly. Still not normal range.

  6. #16
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    This is a controversial topic, where the mainstream of oncologist say it does not matter what you eat including all kinds of sugar (starch, fruit sugar, wheat, corn, etc). But there are also oncologists who claims that there is no reason to overfeed the cancer cells with high level of blood sugar, which again requires insulin (produced by pancreas and the liver). The insulin is in many ways the “key” for the cells opening them up so they can eat the sugars floating around in the blood. Sugar also leads to higher level of the IFG hormone, which some claim also can trigger growth of cancer cells. In general, we eat way too much sugar, and it is well documented that this leads to a lot of diseases.
    Can you starve the cancer cells to death, probably not? The body will produce sugar out of fat and proteins since there are cells in the body who can not manage without. Even with a so-called ketose diet (less than 30g carbs a day), there will be blood sugar. But there is probably no need to overfeed the cancer cells with peaking values of blood sugar, insulin and the IGF growth hormone either? The most important for a cancer patient is to have enough energy to fight the disease. Maintaining a healthy weight is probably more important than what you eat, but it is probably better to eat healthy than unhealthy. For instance, a lifestyle to include a diet that strengthen your immune system is important. Quality of life is also an important question to take into the equation for a pancreatic cancer patient. A medical doctor here in Norway (but not oncologist) who got pancreatic cancer released a book this summer where he lists ten major things that you can do yourself to improve the fight against cancer. One of theme is reducing the sugar intake, he concludes that the sum of all ten factors may have a positive effect. It is interesting that there is much less cancer among Innuits on Greenland eating a traditional diet without carbs/sugar, and that Japanese living in the US has a higher risk of cancer then those living in Japan. A PET/CT scan utilize that cancer cells are sugar hungry; it actually finds areas in the body that takes up more sugar than the surrounding cells. This is because cancer cells require 200 times more glucose than normal cells. I personally think that a healthy lifestyle to include a healthy diet that supports your medical cancer treatment is the right approach. I think this article gives a balanced perspective regarding sugar/glucose and cancer.

    https://www.webmd.com/cancer/feature...r-sugar-link#1
    Last edited by Dessmo; 09-04-2019 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Wrong hyperlink
    December 16 - diagnosed with Acinar Cell Carcinoma w/ metastasis (7) to the liver
    January 17 - started treatment w/FOLFIRINOX
    February 17 - allergic to Neulasta, had to stop taking the shots
    March 17 - 50% reduction of tumor and metastasis after 4 treatments
    May 17 - CT scan after 8 treatments: tumor 17x22 mm and well defined
    May 17 - Stoped FOLFIRINOX after 9 cycles to prepare for surgery
    June 17 - Surgery 22 June, Distal pancreatectomy, removed tail/body, spleen and 6 lymph nodes (all negative)
    Genetic profiling done via PanCan: No BRCA mutations, but SMAD4, CTNNB1 and MLL2
    May 17 - April 19 CT show stabile disease - no new or enlarged mets
    June 19 - No sign og active cancer in liver or pancreas bed. One small lesion unidentified under diaphragm.

  7. #17
    Thank you so much, Dessmo!
    February 2016- diagnosed with PC
    March 2016- inoperable due to arteries, also liver mets suspected
    March 2016-January 2017 -Gemzar/Abraxane
    February 2017 surgery-PC tumour and liver mets removed at same time
    July 2018 Back on Gemzar/Abraxane due to rising CA 19-9. Scans were clear.
    January 2019 Tried FOLFIRINOX after G/A became ineffective. FFX doesn't work. CA 19-9 rising
    February 2019 two small tumors appear on liver
    May 2019 - CA 19-9 skyrocketing. Started IMRT radiation treatment.
    August 2019 MRI done. No Evidence of Disease (NED). CA 19-9 dropped significantly. Still not normal range.

  8. #18
    Thanks, Susan. I was able to do it.
    February 2016- diagnosed with PC
    March 2016- inoperable due to arteries, also liver mets suspected
    March 2016-January 2017 -Gemzar/Abraxane
    February 2017 surgery-PC tumour and liver mets removed at same time
    July 2018 Back on Gemzar/Abraxane due to rising CA 19-9. Scans were clear.
    January 2019 Tried FOLFIRINOX after G/A became ineffective. FFX doesn't work. CA 19-9 rising
    February 2019 two small tumors appear on liver
    May 2019 - CA 19-9 skyrocketing. Started IMRT radiation treatment.
    August 2019 MRI done. No Evidence of Disease (NED). CA 19-9 dropped significantly. Still not normal range.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by legodude View Post
    That's fantastic news!

    I've tried finding reliable info on what CA 19-9 values really mean. My values are sky-high. My oncologist just says that the high values are because of the disease. Well, duh. No kidding.

    I do remember reading somewhere that a CA 19-9 level above the normal range could be because the liver isn't performing normally, and the high value itself doesn't necessarily mean it's caused by cancer.

    My thought is that CA 19-9 is just used for figuring out a trend. Decreasing values mean treatment is probably working. But a specific value doesn't necessarily mean anything. The reliable and solid answer is in scan results (CT, MRI, PET).

    I'm still relatively new to all this, so I'm happy to learn. Hopefully someone else here has better insight regarding CA 19-9 values.
    I was diagnosed in 2017.After Whipple surgery and 6 months of chemo CA19-9 became normal. This past May levels starting going up. CT scan is okay. During hernia repair the scope was used to look around and no evidence of return. I am perplexed. If it still continues to rise having a PET scan. It is now a wait and see game. I think it is better to know something so it can be treated.

  10. #20
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    I am so glad your marker dropped. I think good news is always smthg to feel good about and celebrate! Why not to feel relieved to receive good news. As far as sugar is concerned we hear that a lot. My mum who had the disease disliked sugar throughout her whole lifetime including the time of her sickness. For what is worth I feel if it was up to sugar she shouldn’t have had the disease at all because she barely ever ate it. There is too much hype about sugar but there are people who don’t like it and still get cancer. All the best Jackie

 

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