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Thread: No level of alcohol consumption improves health

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASAdvocate View Post
    I have less PCa now than I did ten years, and, since I do not fellow a regimen or diet, studies are not going to convince me to change what apparently works for me.
    Yet, you often quote studies. Anecdotal evidence can not be safely applied to the general public. I very much appreciate your presence here as the exception to the rule. You are a subset of a subset and your experience shared here is invaluable.
    Last edited by Another; 09-29-2019 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Another View Post
    If taking mega doses, monitor your kidney and liver annual blood test results for changes over time and drink plenty of water. I'd suggest giving up alcohol all together if mega dosing on supplements. I believe this type of damage is irreversible.

    Alcohol and aspirin is a deadly combination, imo. Monitor your stool color (dark) for internal bleeding.

    In men with their prostate, if anti-inflammatory supplements are reducing your PSA it is most likely PSA produced by inflammation and not the PSA produced by the cancer.

    The fact that very little dietary supplementation may be reaching it's target is more evidence of the burden being placed on the kidneys and other systems.

    There is also the risk of not knowing the summary vitamin/substance type and amount in concentrated food derived supplements.

    https://health.usnews.com/health-new...ng-supplements
    Just a couple of points:

    If a supplement reduces, or also reduces, (prostate) inflammation, that's a good thing. Inflammation is thought to be a factor in carcinogenesis.

    The low bioavailability of a phytochemical (a compound found in plants) may be the result of the body simply breaking it down as a any food and doesn't necessarily mean it puts a strain on the liver or kidneys. Supplement doses are equivalent to eating a lot of the source food(s), but they have been around and used for some time. Do NOT take the attitude that if one or two capsules/day may be beneficial, then a handful must certainly be even better. They aren't candy (not that a lot of candy is good for you either).

    Regarding alcohol, I come from a family where alcohol consumption was low (probably a genetic component to this also). I doubt my consumption of wine and liquor amounts to more than the alcohol equivalent of a handful of bottles of wine a year.

    Djin
    Last edited by DjinTonic; 09-29-2019 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ASAdvocate View Post
    I’ve been drinking two or three glasses of full-bodied red wine every night since 1985, the same time I started taking aspirin.

    I have less PCa now than I did ten years, and, since I do not fellow a regimen or diet, studies are not going to convince me to change what apparently works for me.
    And I, for one, am not trying to convince anyone about any supplement. However, PCa is common, and it's logical that some ask if there is anything they can eat/take to prevent it, slow its progess, or delay/prevent its return. The answer is far from clear. But for me, waiting a decade for better answers would be ironic if the answer turns out to be yes and my cancer returned. One can weigh the risks vs potential benefits. Studies also serve that purpose.

    When you set up an experiment or trial, it's easy and necessary to set up a control group that doesn't get the treatment or procedure. You aren't left with the "What if?" question you are always left with after you choose to do or not do something.

    Djin
    Last edited by DjinTonic; 09-29-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjinTonic View Post
    Supplement doses are equivalent to eating a lot of the source food(s)
    Whether eating a lot of the source food is a good idea or not is one aspect of the debate. As well as, is it even possible to eat the amount of food required to match a supplement mega dose on a daily basis. The supplement method does, in appearance, seem to avoid the impact of eating natural foods at toxic levels. Whether it does or not is the qestion.

    Our bodies have evolved, over time, to process our nutrition in combination with all that accompanies them including time and satiation. Sugar is a good example of a processed supplement derived from natural food devoid of the natural restrictions that come with eating it in it's natural context. Trying to consume it at the quantities we use it as a supplement is impossible in it's natural form and unpalatable.

    Please keep in mind, my responses are often directed to the community at large and not you or your program specifically. I perceive you as cautious, deliberate and science based in your choices. I suspect you are applying these attributes, as well, in pursuit of your daily natural diet.

    I drink occassionally and see very little long term harm in it. What I don't do now is justify my drinking as a health benefit. For me, life is a gift to be spent. A life well spent is an individual's choice. There are lots of choices I admire and respect that come at the expense of one's own life. They become even more precious when done with knowledge and intent.
    Last edited by Another; 09-29-2019 at 09:46 PM.

  5. #15
    Another, I appreciate our dialogs!

    Evolution is a funny thing. It's an ingenious set of mechanisms that get a species through the offspring-raising period wonderfully, but guarantees little more. The remaing years are gravy that often comes with lumps like arthritis, cancer, and dementia. We see that the cravings that took advantage of foods that were often rare in prehistoric diets, like sugars, salt, and animal meat/fat, may be our undoing today. It's evolutionary serendipity that, for example, a compound from the periwinkle plant turned out to be the first (vincristine) in a family of powerful drugs (taxanes) for fighting human cancers, or a bread mold with antibiotic properties, or willow bark with such varied beneficial effects, etc.

    Some substances in our foods have properties that help us beyond their nutrient value (e.g. vitamins). Whether other food compounds are beneficial because of serendipity or evolved mechanisms may be difficult to determine. But this keeps researchers looking.

    Djin
    Last edited by DjinTonic; 09-29-2019 at 02:51 PM.

  6. #16
    Top User garyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjinTonic View Post
    .....The remaining years are gravy that often comes with lumps like arthritis, cancer, and dementia..
    Djin
    AMEN, brother! Good to keep this gift in mind when bemoaning our minor issues
    72...LUTS for the past 7 years
    TURP 2/16,
    G3+4 discovered
    3T MRI 5/16
    MRI fusion guided biopsy 6/16
    14 cores; four G 3+3, one G3+4,
    CIPRO antibiotic = C. Diff infection 7/16
    Cured with Vanco for 14 days
    Second 3T MRI 1/17
    Worsened bulging of posterior capsule
    Oncotype DX GPS 3/17, LFP risk 63%, Likelihood of Low
    Grade Disease 81%, Likelihood of Organ Confined 80%
    RALP 7/13/17 Dr. Gonzaglo @ Univ of Miami
    G3+4 Confirmed, Organ confined
    pT2 pNO pMn/a Grade Group 2
    PSA 0.32 to .54 over 3 months
    DCFPyl PET & ercMRI Scans - 11/17
    A one inch tumor still in prostate bed = failed surgery
    All met scans clear
    SRT, 2ADT, IMGT 70.2 Gys @1.8 per, completed 5/18
    Radiation Procitis, and Ulcerative Colitis flaired after 20 years
    PSA <.006 9/18, .054 11/18, .070 12/18, .067 2/19, .078 5/19, .074 7/19, .081 9/19
    We'll see....what is not known dwarfs what is thought to be fact

  7. #17
    Since I mentioned phytochemical supplements in this thread, I thought I'd mention that I've updated Topic (S) in the Subforum with the latest PDQ guides on this topic (PDQ Guides are usually updated a couple of times a year)

    Prostate Cancer, Nutrition, and Dietary Supplements (PDQ): Health Professional Version [Sept. 24, 2019, Full Text]

    This PDQ cancer information summary for health professionals provides comprehensive, peer-reviewed, evidence-based information about the use of nutrition and dietary supplements for reducing the risk of developing prostate cancer or for treating prostate cancer. It is intended as a resource to inform and assist clinicians who care for cancer patients. It does not provide formal guidelines or recommendations for making health care decisions.

    This summary is reviewed regularly and updated as necessary by the PDQ Integrative, Alternative, and Complementary Therapies Editorial Board, which is editorially independent of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). The summary reflects an independent review of the literature and does not represent a policy statement of NCI or the National Institutes of Health (NIH)
    Prostate Cancer, Nutrition, and Dietary Supplements (PDQ): Patient Version [Sept. 26, 2019, Full Text]

    This PDQ cancer information summary has current information about the use of nutrition and dietary supplements for reducing the risk of developing prostate cancer or for treating prostate cancer. It is meant to inform and help patients, families, and caregivers. It does not give formal guidelines or recommendations for making decisions about health care.

    Editorial Boards write the PDQ cancer information summaries and keep them up to date. These Boards are made up of experts in cancer treatment and other specialties related to cancer. The summaries are reviewed regularly and changes are made when there is new information. The date on each summary ("Date Last Modified") is the date of the most recent change. The information in this patient summary was taken from the health professional version, which is reviewed regularly and updated as needed, by the PDQ Integrative, Alternative, and Complementary Therapies Editorial Board.
    Djin

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another View Post
    Alcohol consumption benefits are outweighed by cancer risk, among others.
    Several years ago I had a conversation with one of our top distributor principals named "Vince." We were at a massive annual trade show. Since our company's entire field force attended this convention, we held our national sales meeting 2 days prior to the start of the convention. There was no limit to the amount of fine food and alcoholic beverages one could consume. Vince took all of the top awards. At the reception, I asked him "Why are you not at least having a celebratory glass of wine?" He responded:

    "A very long time ago, an old timer once told me: 'nothing good has ever come out of a bottle!'"

    I now think that sage old timer was correct.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Semiramide View Post
    Several years ago I had a conversation with one of our top distributor principals named "Vince." We were at a massive annual trade show. Since our company's entire field force attended this convention, we held our national sales meeting 2 days prior to the start of the convention. There was no limit to the amount of fine food and alcoholic beverages one could consume. Vince took all of the top awards. At the reception, I asked him "Why are you not at least having a celebratory glass of wine?" He responded:

    "A very long time ago, an old timer once told me: 'nothing good has ever come out of a bottle!'"

    I now think that sage old timer was correct.
    After the Doolittle raid the survivors met annually to drink a toast to each other from a glass inscribed with their name. As each passed, their glass was turned upside down the following year. The last person was to drink a toast to the others. When 3 where left, they drank the last toast. The last died at 106.

    Some times there are some very good things associated with a bottle.
    Last edited by Duck2; 10-09-2019 at 04:38 PM.
    YOB 1957

    DX 12/18, GS 8, 4+4 6/12 cores, LL Apex 100%, LM Apex 60%, LL Mid 50%, LMM 40%, LL Base 5%, LM <5%, Right side negative.

    3/6/19. Pathology - Grade Group 4 with Intraductal Carcinoma
    T3aNO, GS8, 21 mm unifocal tumor 10%. -7 Nodes, - SV, - Margins, - PNI,
    - bladder neck neg., +LVI, + EPE non focal apex/mid lateral 1mm max extension, Cribriform pattern present. Decipher .86 High Risk.

    PSA 3/27/19 03 (29 days)
    4/25/19 <.03. (58 days)
    5/25/19 <.02. (88 days)
    9/10/2019. <.02. (198 days)

    3 Part Modality Treatment

    2/25/19 Robotic Laparoendoscopic Single Site Surgery outpatient Cleveland Clinic,

    ADT - started 6/19, end date 6/21.

    ART - Completed 9/26/19. (78 Gy, yes, I glow in the dark)

  10. #20
    Super Moderator Top User po18guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASAdvocate View Post
    Ive been drinking two or three glasses of full-bodied red wine every night since 1985, the same time I started taking aspirin.

    I have less PCa now than I did ten years, and, since I do not fellow a regimen or diet, studies are not going to convince me to change what apparently works for me.
    Amen! Did not drink for 41 years. Recently, to celebrate 10, then 11 years with my hematologist (on a 1-1.5 year prognostic at best), we toast the situation with a glass of wine maybe three times yearly. I am much more likely to die in a traffic collision - 103 in the US die daily - 24/7/365. And thousands more are injured.

    No, an occasional glass of wine strikes me as just fine.
    05/08-07/08 Tumor appears behind left ear. Followed by serial medical incompetence on the parts of PCP, veteran oncologist and pathologist (misdiagnosis via non-diagnosis). Providential guidance to proper care at an NCI designated comprehensive cancer center.
    07/08 Age 56 DX 1) Peripheral T-Cell Lymphoma-Not Otherwise Specified. Stage IV-B, >50 ("innumerable") tumors, bone marrow involvement.
    08/08-12/08 Four cycles CHOEP14 + four cycles GND (Cyclofosfamide, Doxorubicin, Vincristine, Etoposide, Prednisone & Gemcitabine, Navelbine, Doxil)
    02/09 2) Relapse.
    03/09-06/13 Clinical trial of Romidepsin > long-term study. NED for 64 twenty-eight day cycles, dose tapered.
    07/13 3) Relapse, 4) Suspected Mutation.
    08/13-02/14 Romidepsin increased, stopped for lack of response. Watch & Wait.
    09/14 Relapse/Progression. Visible cervical nodes appear within 4 days of being checked clear.
    10/06/14 One cycle Belinostat. Discontinued to enter second clinical trial.
    10/25/14 Clinical trial of Alisertib/Failed - Progression.
    01/12/15 Belinostat resumed/Failed - Progression. 02/23/15
    02/24/15 Pralatrexate/Failed - Progression. 04/17/15
    04/15 Genomic profiling reveals mutation into PTCL-NOS + AngioImmunoblastic T-Cell Lymphoma. Stage IV-B a second time. Two dozen tumors + small intestine (Ileum) involvement.
    04/22/15 TEC (Bendamustine, Etoposide, Carboplatin). Full response in two cycles. PET/CT both clear. Third cycle followed.
    06/15-07/15 Transplant preparation (X-rays, spinal taps, BMB, blood test, MUGA scan, lung function, CMV screening, C-Diff testing etc. etc. etc.) Intrathecal Methotrexate during spinal tap.
    BMB reveals 5) 26% blast cells of 20q Deletion Myelodysplastic Syndrome MDS), a bone marrow cancer and precursor to Acute Myeloid Leukemia.
    07/11-12/15 Cyclofosfamide + Fludarabine conditioning regimen.
    07/16/15 Total Body Irradiation.
    07/17/15 Moderate intensity Haploidentical Allogeneic Stem Cell Transplant receiving my son's peripheral blood stem cells.
    07/21-22/15 Triple dose Cyclofosfamide + Mesna, followed by immunosuppressants Tacrolimus and Mycophenolate Mofetil.
    07/23-08/03/15 Marrow producing zero blood cells. Fever. Hospitalized two weeks.
    08/04/15 Engraftment occurs, and blood cells are measurable - released from hospital.
    08/13/15 Day 26 - Marrow is 100% donor cells. Platelets climbing steadily, red cells follow.
    09/21/15 Acute skin Graft versus Host Disease arrives.
    DEXA scan reveals Osteoporosis.
    09/26/-11/03/15 Prednisone to control skin GvHD.
    11/2015 Acute GvHD re-classified to Chronic Graft versus Host Disease.
    05/2016 Tacrolimus stopped. Prednisone from 30-90mg daily tried. Sirolimus begun. Narrow-band UV-B therapy started, but discontinued for lack of response. One treatment of P-UVAreceived, but halted due to medication reaction.
    09/16/16 Three skin punch biopsies.
    11/04/16 GvHD clinical trial of Ofatumumab (Arzerra) + Prednisone + Methylprednisolone begun.
    12/16 Type II Diabetes, Hypertension - both treatment-related.
    05/17 Extracorporeal Photopheresis (ECP) begun in attempt to control chronic Graft-versus-Host-Disease (cGvHD. 8 year old Power Port removed and replaced with Vortex (Smart) Port for ECP.
    05/2017 Chronic anemia (low hematocrit). Chronic kidney disease. Cataracts from radiation and steroids.
    06/17 Trying various antibiotics in a search for tolerable prophylaxis.
    08/17 Bone marrow biopsy reveals the presence of 2% cells with 20q Deletion Myelodysplastic Syndrome, considered to be Minimum Residual Disease.
    12/17 Bone marrow biopsy reveals no abnormalities in the marrow - MDS eradicated. The steroid taper continues.
    01/18 Consented for Kadmon clinical trial.
    03/18 Began 400mg daily of KD025, a rho-Associated Coiled-coil Kinase 2 Inhibitor (ROCK2).
    09/18 Due to refractory GvHD, Extracorporeal Photopheresis halted after 15 months ue to lack of additional benefit.
    10/18 I was withdrawn from the Kadmon KD025 clinical trial due to increasing fatigue/lack of benefit.
    11/18 Began therapy with Ruxolitinib (Jakafi), a JAK 1&2 inhibitor class drug. Started at half-dose due to concerns with drug interactions.

    To date: 1 cancer, relapse, second relapse/mutation into 2 cancers, then 3 cancers simultaneously, 20 chemotherapy/GVHD drugs in 11 regimens (4 of them at least twice), 5 salvage regimens, 4 clinical trials, 5 post-transplant immuno-suppressant/modulatory drugs, the equivalent of 1,000 years of background radiation from 40+ CT series scans and about 24 PET scans.
    Both lymphoid and myeloid malignancies lend a certain symmetry to the hematological journey.

    Believing in the redemptive value of suffering makes all the difference.

 

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